I too believe in personal responsibility and a pretty strict accounting for it as well.
While the people at that site may not be able to be legally charged with the killing of the girl who committed suicide, they are about as much to blame as someone in a crowd telling a person on a roof top to, “JUMP!” Providing information to a suicidal person concerning how to conveniently kill oneself is like being confronted by someone with a gun and some bullets who doesn’t know how to load it in order to blow their brains out.
Effing Hell! Do you instruct them on how to load the gun?
Do you offer the chap on the roof top a nudge and a push?
Is there really anyone in their right mind who can truthfully say that providing such facilitation does not incur some moral responsibility in the loss of a life?
Qazzz, a person who is sufficiently depressed to take steps towards suicide is a walking definition of, “diminished capacity.” At the time of her death, this was not a smiling straight A scholarship student. This was a self destructive individual prone to the worst sort of errors in judgment. The maggots in that chat room who enabled her suicide bear an equal hand in it. Sure, no one forced the poison down her throat, but someone did tell her how to mix it, knowing full well that she was extremely vulnerable. You might as well hand a razor sharp dagger to a three year old.
If ever there was a test case for the limits of free speech.
i don’t know. when i was in a dark place and doing my own web browsing a few months ago, i found a book out there that has all the same information. it’s done so that people know what they’re getting into and even had pictures of botched attempts. it also had info. on painless methods. i think it’s ok for this to exist. and the web group, i’ve been lurking and it’s not this group of people encouraging everyone to ‘do it! do it! ya!’ i think it’s ok for that to exist too.
they just have a space to talk about things they don’t dare tell others. it seems just if someone has made up their mind, they let them have that choice. if someone is ambivalent, they discuss things going on and trying to talk to others. they don’t just tell anyone to go off themselves because it’s hopeless.
yes, there is information on how to commit suicide, but you know… it’s almost like saying violence on tv makes kids into murderers. it’s easy to want to blame something/someone when something sad happens, and it’s hard to imagine someone wanting to take their own life. but, the responsibility really is in the hands of the person and not the things they’ve chosen to surround themselves with. it is their responsibility in how they choose to use the information they find. i think if someone really wants out out, they will find their way whether the info is on the internet or not.
i was in a place where i was considering doing things to myself. i found these sites and the book and, it didn’t inspire me to go closer to the edge. it made me cry with relief and comfort that i wasn’t the only crazy person to think such horrid things. and i was sad that other people felt such pain too. and it all made me realize i wanted to get help, and i did. if i hadn’t found these resources, who knows what i might have done then when i felt like there was no one on the earth who could ever understand.
It’s so rare that I see people express this sentiment, but I share it greatly. It is unfortunate that those left behind will suffer - but to say “suicide is wrong, you should continue to suffer because if you don’t, my feelings will be hurt” isn’t exactly noble.
Quite the contrary, in my opinion. I think this is a great example of the fact that something can (and obviously this is just my take) be horribly disgusting and wrong and still be protected speech. Just because it’s OK to say something doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do.
Encouraging someone in a singularly vulnerable and distressed position - particularly a treatable one - to take a shortsighted way out strikes me as being even LESS noble.
I believe I know to what “web site” this article refers. If that is the case, I can tell you that the discussion that goes on there is being misrepresented by the media. No one actively encourages suicide, and if they did, they would be considered a troll, and flamed by the posters. You have to understand, some people DO NOT WANT people to tell them “things will get better”, “go see a doctor”, or anything that seems patronising. This is a place where you can discuss your feelings openly, without people freaking out.
There’s been a deluge of media articles recently, about this site. I haven’t seen them all, but none understand the motives of the posters. It’s not about encouragine suicide, far from it, in fact. It’s about OPEN MINDED discussion. Most people seem to find satisfaction in the fact that there are others like them, who truly believe that life has nothing more to offer. Knowing that you aren’t alone in the world is invaluable, and that is why the group attracts people.
As far as suicidal people being so emotionally volatile that a passing comment, even one that encourages death, would somehow be the breaking point that would send them over the edge… well, that’s just ridiculous. We are talking about an obsession with killing yourself here. From my own personal experience, a suicidal person can be close to “the edge” a hundred times a day. It’s likely they’ve been struggling with it for years, twenty four hours a day, seven days a week.
Anyway, locating a method to ease death is not exactly rocket science. A shotgun will do the job. Most people have an idea of what they want to do, the majority of what goes on there actually involves refuting various methods, to avoid irreperable harm(besides death, obviously). It’s not nearly as sinister as the media would have you believe. They just want a good story.
Yeah, there is a world of difference, but someone tried to blame that song for a kid’s death and almost won the case. I don’t agree that the people on the suicide website are “murderers.” It’s morally abject to encourage someone to commit suicide, but typing words onto a screen is not a crime.
There are tons of websites that tell you exactly how to do drugs, where to get them, how to make them, etc., but I wouldn’t blame them if some idiot decides to give it a try.
It’s a tragedy and it’s horrific, but it’s not murder. That girl was smart enough to know the ramifications of her decision. I feel sympathy for her and her family.
And I wasn’t saying that anyone would necessarily troll, but that I was curious and wanted to take a look at the website. If it’s as bad as everyone’s suggesting, I don’t know anyone that would troll it to be cruel. I didn’t mean to give the idea that I support that in any way.
I support people’s right to commit suicide if they’ve thought it out fully.
But not, in any circumstances, in my front yard. Attempt suicide in front of me and I’ll do what I can to stop you.
I’ve never seen the site in question, but if they were responsible they would advise people to keep a log pertaining to how they feel about it for at least a year. If on a nonstop basis you want to be a dead person for a year I guess it is reasonable to provide you with instructions and directions to necessary materials. But if you sometimes have second thoughts, … dead is forever. And you’re going to end up dead sooner or later anyhow, so why rush it?
Would you hold them to blame if said idiot started e-mailing them and asking them specifically where to go, because they needed a fix right now? There is a big difference between posting information and answering questions from somebody who has expressed a definite interest in doing something to themselves. And when somebody counsels them on exactly how to go about killing themselves, well…that’s what we call accessory.
I just did a search and found tons of crap like that on the net!!
It’s way to easy for depressed folks to find!!
I think it’s horrible that they say it’s just a place to go instead of getting help!! What’s wrong with going to a hospital if it will save your life???!!
And directions? What are these people?? Saddists? If they are so pro choice suicide why aren’t they dead and unable to instruct others?
Okay here is a kind of stupid question. I f you really want to kill y ourself why would you need website instructions? I mean you could do it in any number of ways? Blow dryer in the bath tub? Rope over the tree, rat poison in the powder sugar donuts, razor blade to the wrists, you could walk out in front of a semi, or jump from the roof! I mean anyone who is intent on death doesn’t need these wackos to guide them they will find a way. Am I wrong about that? So what purpose do they really serve?
I kind of understand Kervorkian. Most of his “patients” are past the point of being able to manage suicide on their own as they are generally critically ill already but if the people who access the site are healthy internet surfing, moped riding depressed teens…then why would she need instruction on cocktail making?
So sad – I have to think of her parents. How devastated they must be.
That’s sorta dealt with earlier. The answer is "Just because you may want to die doesn’t mean you want to die in thrashing, spasming, vomiting pain and misery[sup]TM[/sup]. A blow dryer could leave you alive with a lot of third degree burns all over your body. Rat poison in insufficient doses would probably make you puke your guts up and leave you alive. Razor blades kill you, but not necessarily fast. Get hit by a truck or fall off the roof and you may find all sorts of bits crushed with life still ahead of you - on a respirator or something. Sound fun?
That’s why Kevorkian had a ‘market,’ so to speak. The people wanted to die painlessly and with some dignity, and make sure it was done by someone who knew what they were doing. If you had a tumor in your foot, you wouldn’t want someone to just chop your leg off with a chainsaw.
malkavia, I remember that incident, and I also remember that people were trying to help: encouraging him to eat bread and/or throw up, and debating whether to call his mom. One guy said, in all caps, “Call a friggin poison control center”.
I’m not saying they were heroes, but they certainly didn’t rejoice at his death.
I have visited this group (which I will not name) numerous times over the years. And if the article is talking about that group (I’m 99% certain they are), I think there may be some misperceptions going on.
The group mainly discusses their feelings of despair. A lot of the time, this freedom to discuss is probably the only things keeping them alive. I don’t believe breaking up this group would accomplish anything, in fact it would probably drive more of them to suicide.
That’s like asking why aren’t all pro-choicers for abortions getting pregnant and having abortions. Some people firmly believe the option should be available for others, even if they don’t think it’s the right choice for themselves.
I hate to say this, but judging by some of the stories posting to that group, some people just don’t seem cut out for living. Anti-depressents don’t seem to help them, and their life has sucked for a long time.
To say that suicide is never a solution is an oversimplification. I’d say it should be a last resort. If you feel in utter despair, pick a calender date, say 10 years ahead of you, then seek out help. If, after all that time nothing has changed, then maybe go ahead with your plans.
I have to disagree with that contention that it’s merely an “inconvenience”, especially if it’s a close friend or family member that takes their own life.
