Sorry, adhay, this is just hopelessly naive. “Your” world is a fantasy. I say this as a veteran of the 60s who has heard this kind of utopian rhetoric for more than 40 years. (Not that it began in the 60s either.) While personally I’m sympathetic to the ideals involved, in the real world, with real people, things never play out this way (at least not for very long.)
By the way, have you read Animal Farm?
In addition to Animal Farm, Lord of the Flies should be on your reading list.
Ah, but are they all in the same basket? And should the basket be red or blue, or maybe even green? And hey, who says only eggs are allowed, why can’t we have some chickens in there? And who gets to be the decider of what counts as common good? Do the eggs take a vote, or is there a head egg? Because brother let me tell you, when eggs start putting their heads together, things get messy.
Again, this is not the OP for your post. But I will BRIEFLY address it and then, regardless of how unfounded, naive and incomplete you believe my response to be, please let it go here. Pit me on the subject if you like. Something like, adhay is a Utopian Airhead will get my attention. Maybe. If I decide open a dancing school for pigs.
Right
And the rest of you folks are also right in your observations that many have protested the “system” in the past with little effect and when they were successful in overthrowing the established order by force, the results were less than beatific, generally more of the same, only worse.
The situation today is quite different and I am not talking about a revolution. The global economic, transportation and agricultural systems depend for their continued existence on an ever increasing supply of cheap oil. This is NOT debatable in this OP.
One hundred fifty years of nearly free oil has resulted in the sextupling of the world’s population, the US suburbs, Wall Street, WalMart, Brad Pitt and (as things have tightened up recently) the endless and publicly/socially financed remote controlled destruction of local social/agricultural/economic infrastructures around the world, all in the name of spreading ‘democracy’ with the expressed aim of acquiring those last sips of cheap sweet crude. It should be obvious to anyone that this system is not sustainable and hard times are in store for most of the world’s population. Again, this is NOT debatable in this OP.
Now, with that said, what I am suggesting, and my cites in the OP substantiate it, is that there are a growing number of people who see that the shit is going to hit the fan and are beginning to work toward local solutions, especially feeding people by involving them in their own food production and greatly reducing local dependence on oil. For example, on a local basis, bio-fuels could sustain a small fleet of emergency vehicles, trucks for transport and limited public transportation.
It has been correctly pointed out that local political inertia is a major obstacle in moving toward local sustainability. I live in a relatively prosperous rural community. Our local economy is in large part based on seasonal tourist dollars AND the assumption that this source of income will continue, indefinitely. My first step is in the direction of making the case to the local business community that this is NOT the case. I have downloaded A Crude Awakening and plan to give it some exposure in the area. We’ll see what happens.
Discussing possible solutions to a recognized problem IS what this OP is about.
The more I think about it, my proposal for a new forum makes Dopey sense. Hey, we’re here to fight ignorance, right? Let’s not prolong the agony.
Since I guarantee you won’t win in terms of getting your own forum on the topic (can’t even get a “Politics” forum here and there is much more interest in that around here), could I suggest you repost some of your comments in IMHO or GD (not sure which is more appropriate)? I think you have seriously wrong expectations about humanity but I also think it’s an interesting issue to discuss.
Thanks.
Yep, around here it looks like an OP in IMHO or even MPSIMS is all that’s feasible. As far as GD goes, meh.
I would suggest if you start an IMHO thread to discuss methods of encouraging local sustainability, you pair that with a GD thread to discuss the need, the reasons, the underlying motivation. Because otherwise people will be interrupting your thread and having to get modded and told to “debate that somewhere else”.
Just a suggestion.
You are quite correct. I need a web presence AND I promise to offer it here soon. In the interim, let me offer this. Dancing School For Pigs. OPEN 24/7. (local sustainability) - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board
You guys would be just helping us all out. And, I’ve promised to do better.
The real reason that this is not debatable is that none of it is true.
Why don’t you try that first before expecting us to do your work for you? You may find that there are many people in the real world that know and understand far more about the issues involved than you do. That could only be to your advantage.
I think you’ll also find that the definition of political is far different from the one you keep using. All politics is local. That is not the same as Republican vs. Democrat. Political involves the assumptions on which you base your conclusions.
If you say that I am not helping, here’s the best advice you will ever get.
Do not ever say “When local eggs are all in the same basket, politics devolves into working together for the common good and, corruption, the inevitable byproduct of governmental centralization, disappears.” to an adult. You will never be taken seriously by anyone that hears this. I mean this quite literally. If you learn only one thing about politics, and I mean real world politics, it should be this.
Noted.
The only difficulty in solving any problem is first recognizing that a problem exists. Once the problem is defined, the solution becomes obvious.
The Global Problem
The world as we know it depends on a continued and ever increasing supply of cheap oil and we are running out. When, exactly, is not known but it will be soon and fuel and food prices will rise, exorbitantly.
Let me refer you to
Any solutions will be found locally.
OK so far, E M?
Given that adhay has started another thread to discuss the topic of sustainability, I don’t think the discussion needs to be continued here as well.
Those interested in the discussion may continue it here: