Excuse a hijack, but where is baseball popular as a spectator sport?
And as of right now, I think this is why I think Rose should be allowed in the Hall of Fame, though not allowed to manage any teams or participate in the game professionally.
Old Charlie Hustle fucked up. He made a mistake, and by all I’ve read, it seems he had a gambling addiction. If this is the case, then why is Rose booted out after getting caught with a gambling addiction while guys like Darrel Strawberry get chance after chance after chance to clean up their drug addictions? An addiction is an addiction in my book. Give a guy a second chance to clean up his act, we’re only human. If he screws the pooch again, bye-bye, out of the game. And what about the statements made by Jose Canseco and Ken Caminiti(?) about wide-spread steroid use in the Majors? Who followed up on that?
That said, out of the game does not necessarily mean out of the Hall of Fame. If we’re gonna site someone’s character as reason to keep them out of the Hall of Fame, then let’s get Ty Cobb out of there. Character-wise, Cobb has gotten to be one of baseball’s biggest blemishes in the Hall of Fame. A blatant racist, a man who once jumped into the stands to beat up a disabled heckler (he had no hands), who possibly killed a man (sorry, no internet cite for that one - read that in a book), who was unloved in his time, yet is reverred in the Hall of Fame and by fans as one of the greatest players of all time.
So baseball can pretty much ignore steroid usage, give drug addicts infinite chances to clean up, and Rose is allowed back for special events (the All-Century Team event a couple years back and this year’s Greatest Moment deal) when the sponsor is paying enough, but the all-time hit king does not deserve a spot in the Hall of Fame because he gambled?
You may disagree, but I think baseball needs to be consistant in it’s dealings with events that can damage the sport (steroid usage), addictions (drugs vs. gambling), person’s character determining a place in the Hall (Ty Cobb), and whether or not Rose is banned from the sport (regardless of how big the sponsor’s check is). I say Rose’s accomplishments have earned him a place in the Hall of Fame. Right next to that other asshole, Ty Cobb.
Japan. Latin America. Korea. Taiwan.
You do bring up some interesting points, Crunchy Frog. Gambling is considered an addiction. But since when is an addiction an excuse for anything? A reason, sure. But not an excuse. Isn’t part of the process of recovery taking searching and fearless stock of yourself, admitting the exact nature of your wrongs, and trying to amend those wrongs? There’s no room there for excuses. Or blindness.
The All-Century Team and Greatest Moments crap are two examples of Selig’s lack of discretion. Or his idiocy. Or his devious, car salesman nature. Take your pick. Whichever it was, it set us up for this fiasco.
Rose was a great player. Cobb was a great player. Rose is probably a better person than was Cobb. Cobb was probably a better ballplayer than was Rose. One’s in the HoF. One ain’t. None of that matters.
What matters is
And that is another reason why I think baseball should not open the door to Rose, should not repeal the ban. Because it’s a reversal of a decision made on those principles.
Uhh… the United States would be a pretty good example.
Canada. Japan. Taiwan. Korea. Almost the entire Carribbean.
Anthracite,
That’s because the Kansas City Royals have pretty much sucked for years. Let’s take a look at their per game attendance and record from 92-01:
1992 23,058 72-90
1993 23,884 84-78
1994 24,346 64-61
1995 17,132 70-74
1996 17,838 75-86
1997 18,853 67-94
1998 18,570 72-89
1999 18,709 64-97
2000 19,319 77-85
2001 18,934 62-100
One winning season in those 10 with no playoff appearances is probably why the small sampling of the “guys in your office” don’t go to the Royals games. Apparently though there are some 18K or so of the “die-hard” fans that somehow manage to show up to each Royals game.
I stand by the fact that your office and the lack of baseball interest therein is not indicative of the popularity of baseball in general, nor is it indicative of the interest that baseball fans might have in the topic of the potential Rose reinstatement.
I appologize profusely for failing to understand the validity of your comments concerning the sports habits of the “guys in your office” as it pertains to the reinstatement of Peter Edward Rose. I also apologize profusely for taking you to task in this Pit thread for what I and a few others thought was a blanket statement by yourself that baseball is not popular.
WSLer,
Fuck you sir.
I don’t want to hear shit from the likes of you on sports-related topics. You’ve blown your credibility with your thread that brags about the Miami football team and a potential “ass-whupping” of OSU as well as your stupid comments in the thread about the Miami team beating the Bengals.
As for my point about the impact on the game as a result of the alleged Rose bets, it is not up to me to prove that the game hasn’t been affected. It would be up to my opposition to prove that the game has been affected. My point that was lost on you is that nobody can prove any tangible damage to the game. As I have stated, I’m quite sure that no outcomes have been affected because nobody has ever shown any proof of that. The best I see is wildy emotional and abstract statements about so-called damage. Where’s the proof of such?
Over the last 15 days, I don’t think I saw a single Tokyo newspaper or news broadcast that did not have details of contract signings in the Japanese Major Leagues. Walking near a Japanese baseball stadium after a game lets out is a spectacular sight – most fans are in team colours and carry plastic bullhorns and noise makers.
As noted above, baseball is also hugely popular in Latin America.
Sigh
As has been mentioned a number of times in this and other threads about Rose, there is a sign in EVERY major league clubhouse which basically says that gambling/betting on baseball is illegal and those found doing so will face harsh and severe punishment, including possible suspension.
And it’s not like those signs were just put up in the last few years, they’ve been there for at least 25 years and wuite possibly longer.
Rose didn’t make a mistake, he knew exactly what the fuck he was doing, eh knew that it was illegal, that it was wrong, yet he kept on doing it.
The fact that he is baseball’s alltime hits leader and whatever other records he holds have less then no bearing on the gambling issue.
Rose and his ego apparently decided that he didn’t have to follow baseball’s rules. He got caught and then started bitching and whining that he didn’t do it, much like a 7 year old caught stealing cookies.
It isn’t about character, it is about obeying the laws/rules.
Rose broke the law, plain and simple.
Sir??!!?
Well, at least you got my sex right, which considering the Land of Tinfoil Hats that you live in, is about as good as you’re gonna do today.
So, simply because I brag (which I might add, I did not do) about the Miami Hurricanes and how badly they are going to beat Ohio State, you, A) Get all huffy and bent out of shape B) Decide I’m not worth listening to. Or something like that. Your post was marvelously incoherent.
I shudder to imagine what your sex life is like.
As weak a comeback as I would expect from you.
Are you ever gonna do anything on this issue other than keep repeating what we all know about the gambling rule in baseball?
Some people in this thread are trying to put it into context…and I in particular am trying to get someone to show me the tangible negative impact the Rose issue had upon the game.
If all you can do in response to these posts are to repeat the rule, then don’t waste our time.
Here’s my vote for Pete Rose in the Hall of Fame. (Note I am one of the last remaining Americans who has never even bought so much as a lottery ticket.) But so he gambled, so effing what! He gambled on his own team. That shows his characteristic stick it in yer face attitude which was typical of him. He was a baseball player’s baseball player. You people who want to punish him and punish him are just plain mean spirited. He has baseball heart.
And oh yeah, before I forget, football sucks as it is designed and manufactured for the fat, bloated, corpulent, consumerist neanderthal, and mind-numbed masses who can barely walk to their car without wheezing and couldn’t do a girlie pushup if they had a car jack under their belly.
Well that was genuinely enlightening. All these years, and I never realized I was so out of shape. Better go recalibrate my scale or something; it’s obviously off by a few hundred pounds. Geez, I’m glad I have random assholes online to make sure I keep track of these things…
I’ve said my piece, which is what I came down here to do. Thanks, everyone, for your comments and insights. I appreciate it. Of course, the issues in question can’t be resolved to everyone’s satisfaction.
And since I’d rather this thread didn’t turn into a flame war – even a small one – I wouldn’t mind a bit if it were closed. Alphagene, John Corrado, Lynn Bodoni?
I went back and counted the for’s and against’s in this thread and it came out in a 7-7 tie.
Well, I don’t know if this will break the tie or not.
I say Pete should be allowed in the hall, but not until 1 year after his death. Recognize his contribution to baseball posthumously, but ban him during his lifetime. Shoeless Joe should be in, too.
Betting on your own team doesn’t lesson the severity of what he did. As the manager he has the power to affect other games while trying win the one he bet on. He could call in a pitcher who should probably be resting and lose that pitcher for the rest of the year, just as an example. When there is no tomorrow, and this is the only game that matters, things are played differently.
When the integrity of the game is in doubt, baseball really will have nothing left. Rose’s sole acts won’t do that, but if baseball doesn’t come down hard, others will follow.
I’d rather vote than rant…
… so my opinion is that Rose should be let back into baseball and be allowed to be voted into the Hall of Fame.
:: shrug ::
Regarding the game’s popularity, my experience is similar to Anthracite’s. Sure, baseball is popular in the US (and the world), but based on my personal adult experience over the last 30 years, it is far less popular than it once was. YMMV.
(However, though I disagree with the opinion expressed in the OP, I want to say the thread title is one of the most creative I’ve ever seen.)
WOW!!!
A highly unscientific poll taken of people who have never and will never have any influence what so ever on whether Pete Rose is reinstated.
And we’re all so lucky that Krispy Original counted up all the votes. I bet you’d like to stay after class and clean the blackboards and erasers, wouldn’t you.
As far as my doing nothing but repeating the rule and your less then worthless opinion that if that’s all I’m going to do, then I should go the hell away, I have this to say…
I pity you, Krispy.
Really, I do. That someone could have that pathetic an existence that they get all bent out of shape because someone says that a college football team could beat the Cinncinatti Bengals is astounding.
Almost but not as quite astounding as your blind allegiance/love affair with Pete Rose.
Johnny Bench said it best, when he was inducted into Cooperstown. In response to a number of fans who chanted We want Pete! We want Pete! We want Pete! Bench said, “You can have him.”
Apparently integrity and honesty aren’t very important qualities to you, Krispy.
That’s sad and scary and frightening, but you have something in common with Pete Rose, so that should make you happy.
But that’s like canonizing him!
Personally I think this Rose chap should just be happy he wasn’t a crooked cricketer:
Not only was the most successful South African captain immediately sacked, he died in a plane crash within a year…
:eek:
Yep. Quite fond of Pete…as are many thousands of others.
Except for…
Who has always been very jealous of Pete and the attention that Pete garnered.
Well…here in the adult world we have the ability to put things into context. I’ve been trying to express that opinion and unfortunately it’s been going right over your head WSLer.
Sad, scary, and frightening huh? Well check this out…this oughta make you pee your pants:
ESPN SportsNation is running a poll about Pete Rose.
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92% believe he bet on baseball
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58.1% believe he bet as a manager
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48.9% believe Rose should be reinstated and elected to the Hall of Fame because, even though he bet on baseball games, he’s paid the price.
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What is the worst transgression in baseball?
19.2% Failing to hustle
23.8% Betting on baseball games
26.6% Using steroids
30.4% Using cocaine
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The recommended punishment for a player found to have bet on baseball:
43.4% for a 5 year ban, 28.7% for a 1 year ban, 27.9% for a permanent ban
Total Votes: 84,459
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/polling?event_id=46
Hmm…seems as though there are many, many other "scary, frightening, and sad people out there WSLer.
So go run off now and start the Ken Dorsey for President thread.
OK.