As of February 15th, the results of the 230,912 votes posted on www.sportscut.com is:
91% voted in favor of reinstating Rose
9% voted against reinstating Rose
I am counted in the 91%. Rose should be reinstated.
Krispy Original – The original SDMB bad boy
While I would very much prefer Rose quit his martyr act and apologized to his fans, I think keeping someone away from the sport for not-fully-proven gambling infractions is excessive. Reinstate him.
-andros-
I know very little about baseball, and only a little more about the Rose situation.
However, it’s my understanding that he didn’t break any laws–just the rules of Baseball, Inc.
Since he broke their rules, it’s their decision since they wrote the rules.
AFAIK, he never bet against his own team, and I don’t recall any accusations of “fixing,” only gambling.
Anyway, he agreed to be an employee of Baseball, Inc. knowing the rules, however, and broke them, thereby subjecting himself to the disciplinary action of those same rules.
Pete rose agreed to accept a lifetime ban from baseball. One stipulation to that agreement was that MLB would not release the details of their investigative report. In the years since accepting the ban, Rose has waged a very successful PR campaign to portray himself as the wronged party. Now, I have zero love for baseball owners or their puppet commissioner’s office, but I understand their adamance in drawing the line against players, coaches or managers betting on their own games. Remeber, it isn’t just win or lose, it’s whether you cover the spread.
The best lack all conviction
The worst are full of passionate intensity.
*
I just think it’s hysterical that Mike Tyson can still box, but Rose is banned from baseball.
I realize that each organization makes up its own rules, but geesh, I think some rules should be ubiquitous. Conviction of rape or murder should be an automatic ouster, esp. if gambling (gasp!) is considered so serious.
BTW, had OJ been convicted of murder, do you think TPTB would have tried to remove him from the Hall of Fame? How does that work? Once you’re in, you can’t be un-instated?
My personal attitude is that Rose remain banned from playing/managing/dealing in baseball. However, he should be in the Hall of Fame, warts and all.
>>Being Chaotic Evil means never having to say your sorry…unless the other guy is bigger than you.<<
—The dragon observes
Yes Rose agreed to a lifelong ban, but baseball also agreed to the very important caveat that he could apply for reinstatement.
What many of us 91% are saying is that all things considered, we feel that Pete has served an adequate penalty and should now be reinstated.
We believe that Rose poses no further threat to the integrity of the game and deserves a second chance.
Krispy Original – The original SDMB bad boy
Krispy, has he ever admitted to his wrong-doing? Until he does that, anybody that forgives him is a damn fool.
Apparently there are 210,130 of us damm fools that disagree with the 20,782 that might want a public confession to clear some kind of moral balance sheet.
Do you have any requirements as to the method of this confession?
Perhaps you favor a Catholic-style confession, where Rose goes into a confession booth with Bud Selig and confesses his sins. Selig then requires Rose to say 4,192 hail-Landis(s) and all is forgiven.
Maybe a more Southern-Baptist approach is suggested. Rose attends a pre-game revival ceremony in which amongst witnessing and tears of joy, he falls to the field on his knees and accepts the lord (of baseball) Bud Selig into his heart.
If that won’t do, then maybe our last resort might be to have some Mormons baptise him in the name of Major League Baseball. Heck, that might not even require his knowledge or consent.
This of course has been toungue-in-cheek, but really now, does it make that much of a difference whether or not Pete confesses?
Krispy Original – The original SDMB bad boy
IIRC, Rose agreed to the lifetime ban with the expectation that it’d be lifted in a few years. Heck, Steve Howe has gotten seven lifetime bans from baseball for drug use. But then Giamatti died, and Fay Vincent didn’t want to disrespect Bart, and no one else since wanted to either.
It’s not how you pick your nose, it’s where you put the boogers
oh, and he definitely should be in the HOF. Talk about a no brainer. He has the most hits ever! So he broke some rules. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
It’s not how you pick your nose, it’s where you put the boogers
Krispy, a simple,“I’m sorry I did it. I shouldn’t have done it. I’ll never do it again.” or even,“I was wrong, I apologize.” would suffice. I don’t give a shit about the number of people who want to do the wrong thing simply because they like the guy. The fact of the matter is that you, and the thousands of hero-worshiping fans like you, wouldn’t support his so-called “rights” if he didn’t have the record he does. In the meantime, he continues on his “Pete Martyr” tour, and you guys are sucking it up like little baby chicks.
The point about an apology is well made. Frankly, I fail to see why the issue should be reconsidered until the facts of the matter have changed. I see only two ways for that to happen:
Rose clearly does not want either of these to happen. So I see no reason why he should expect the ban to be lifted. He has expressed no remorse. How can he expect forgiveness? Oh, that’s right, he expects it because of the adolescent hero worship that athletes receive in our society. I love baseball. Pete Rose was a great player. He screwed up.
He is now suffering the consequences of his behavior. He doesn’t like it. He hopes that his status as a “star” will make those consequences go away. He will probably get his wish. All of you who hope for that result, please remember your attitude the next time a star athlete screws up and does not have to pay the price for his behavior.
The best lack all conviction
The worst are full of passionate intensity.
*
Spiritus,
How can you suggest that Rose has not paid a price?
The man has been banned from baseball for several years now.
Hundreds of thousands of us feel like the debt has been paid. Certainly more so than the New York City baseball players (Steve Howe, Daryl Strawberry, and Dwight Gooden).
Krispy Original – The original SDMB bad boy
Rose here, and I vote yes! 
This just in:
The Cincinnati City Council voted 8-0 to approve a resolution declaring Cinergy Field a “Bud Selig-free Zone” during the impending celebration to honor the 1975 Big Red Machine…
Krispy Original – The original SDMB bad boy
Krispy, where do you see me saying he has not paid a price? I said he is paying a price, and he does not like it. What he has not done is pay the full price to which he agreed. What he has also not done is agee that the material which led to his ban should be released to the general public so tha tthe fans can make an informed decision about whether his punishment was just. He has also never expressed remorse for the behavior which led to his punishmnt in the first place.
I agree that Howe and Strawberry were treated too gently. If you would like to open a thread where we discuss their cases, I will happily slam them for the pampered, irresponsible brats that they are. To argue that the failure of the system in one (or more) case justifies relaxing standards in another leads very quickly to arguments like:
OJ got away with two murders, so they should let {insert name of your favorite felon here} get away with his crime, too.
The best lack all conviction
The worst are full of passionate intensity.
*
It does not surprise me that 91% of the people who vited on that site were in favor of reinstatement for a few reasons:
(1) Pete Rose himself launched the site, promoted it in a slew of interviews, and ultimately appealed to everyone who was pro-Rose. The ones who are against him don’t listen much to him anymore. With his track record on honesty, it was entirely possible that any website he expounds upon would result in nothing more than a server error.
(2) He did this right on the heels of him being elected to the “All Century Team” and the subsequent bruhaha over Pete Grey. The population was hit with pro-Rose propaganda, and Grey’s tactless interview (ironically) softened those on the fence because the reporter was such a dick.
(3) The same American populace are a gullible lot, and they would very much like to forgive Rose, though most of them are unaware of the overwhelming evidence against him.
As you might surmise, I am among the 9% who voted against his reinsttement. What he did was bad for the game and sports in general.
CCNY was once a college basketball powerhouse, and they are (and will always be) listed as the only team to win the NCAA and NIT in the same year. A year afterward, they were involved in a point-shaving scandal which sullied the team so much, as you can tell, they are far from a basketball powerhouse anymore.
Obviously, there is a presidence in all of sports - that gambling on your sport is the worst thing imaginable, because it effects the integrity of the game directly. Even Michael Jordan - who we all have to admit has been deified by the sports media (aside from his baseball exploits) - came under scrutiny at one point when it was alledged that he was gambling on his own sport.
The easiest argument that people use - and frankly, it’s nothing but a straw man - is to point out the off-the-field things that others do, such as drugs and other crimes.
Fact is, you gambling on your sport IS NOT an off-the-field activity. It affects the game for reasons so obvious, it needn’t be explained any further than that.
While unfortunate, a drug user or a wife beater’s behavior is not something that affects what is going on within the game itself. The only thing it does is make the games look bad, but does not question the competition of those games. And therein lies the difference…
Yer pal,
Satan
Earlier Great Debates threads dealing with Pete Rose:
http://www.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000378.html
http://www.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000502.html
http://www.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000518.html
Pete bet on sports. Pete probably (if the preponderance of evidence is to believed) bet on baseball games. Pete may have even bet on Reds games.
But all that notwithstanding, PETE ROSE BELONGS IN THE BASEBALL HALL OF FAME.
This past year, Tony Perez, a truly gifted MLB player and a member of the Big Red Machine of the mid-70’s, was inducted. His nomination and induction were correct in every sense; the man deserves it. Compared to Pete Rose, however, Perez’s contribution to the game is a pint against a gallon.
MLB’s Hall of Fame is chock-full of losers: wife-beaters, drug addicts, alcoholics, etc. The game today is riddled with ‘superstars’ who would be unwelcome in my home because of their ‘pecadilloes.’
Denying Pete Rose his rightful place in the HOF is like saying that Thomas Jefferson should be removed from the history books because he impregnated a black woman. (At the dawn of the 19th century, this was a sin FAR greater in relative scale than anything Pete Rose did or has been accused of doing.) It’s like saying that George Custer deserves no place in history because he made an incredibly stupid mistake. (He did, and like Pete Rose, he paid for it.)
As long as Pete Rose is not a member of the HOF, that institution, and MLB in general, are useless to me.
I don’t know why fortune smiles on some and lets the rest go free…
T