A tricky grammar question

Please help. I’m going backwards and forwards on this one:

First sentence in a story about a policeman, who we know to be dead, from today’s paper:
“If constable X were alive, police believe they would have enough evidence to prosecute him for [crime X]”

To me that says the police would only have had enough evidence had constable X lived – but the story makes clear that “enough evidence” has been collected nonetheless.

The thing is, it sometimes sounds correct for the context when I say it aloud.

Is it right or wrong?

If it is wrong, what would make it right (without a drastic rewrite)? How about: “If constable X were alive, police believe they would have HAD enough evidence to …”?

Unless the evidence hinges on his being alive (to corroborate a confession, etc.), the sentence is incorrect. I think I would just leave off the conditional part, state that there has been sufficient evidence collected, and assume the reader can make the conclusion.

It’s ambiguous, but I don’t see where it breaks any rules of standard English, nor where it unambiguously provides the meaning you suggest.

Logically speaking, it’s a P->Q ^ ~P statement (i.e., “If P is true then Q is true, but P is not true”). Such a statement does not logically lead to the ~Q conclusion.

Daniel

The sentence is correct as written. Try turning it around.

Police believe they would have enough evidence to prosecute constable X if he were alive.

It’s grammatically correct, but the modifier (“if he were alive”) is misplaced. As published, it seems to modify the closed verb phrase (have enough evidence) when in fact if refers to the second verb phrase (prosecute constable x). It’s better as Exapno Mapcase rearranges it, with the modifier next to the verb phrase it modifies.

That should be “closest” verb phrase, not “closed.”

Is there any difference between your sentence and this:
“Police believe they have enough evidence to have prosecuted constable X were he still alive”?

To me, the second says the evidence is not conditional on his being alive, whereas the first does.

Or you could do a more drastic rearrangement: “Were Constable X still alive, police believe that they could [successfully] prosecute him for Crime X with the evidence now available.”

Just for the heck of it:

Police claim to have sufficient evidence to procecute constable X and would do so, were he still alive.
Thus divorcing completely the concepts of sufficient evidence and X’s status. Whether he is alive or dead is now clearly irrelevant to the quantity of evidence.

How about this:

“If constable X were alive, police believe they would be able to prosecute and convict him for [crime X]”?

Seems to remove any ambiguity. Technically, you could even omit “prosecute and”.

No newspaper should ever write that evidence collected by the police would convict somebody. That’s for a jury to decide. Prosecute is the right word.

It’s poorly worded. It sounds like since they guy is dead, there’s not enough evidence, but if he were alive, there would be enough evidence.

Something like this sounds better to me: “Police believe they have enough evidence to prosecute constable X for crime X, were he alive.”

Does anyone doubt what the sentence means? Did the sentence really trip anyone up on reading it?

Although I can see the ambiguity if I look for it, the meaning is both immediate and aparent to me. In such cases, I’m not too worried about technical ambiguity.

However, it may be that it tripped some folks up; if so, then the ambiguity is a problem.

Daniel

Combined with the headline, no. I understand what your getting at, but there’s always going to a point past which ambiguity lies.

Bloody hell, that was awful.
I understand what you’re getting at, but there’s always going to be a point past which ambiguity lies.

I can think of a situation where being alive could in itself be evidence of a crime - namely if you faked your own death so a spouse (or yourself under a fake name) could collect insurance.

Just thowin’ that in for laughs.

Yeah, it’s weird, but the sentence is still correct.

But how far do we measure “getting tripped up”? I find it very jarring to read a sentence that begins with a modifier that then doesn’t agree with the subject, rearrange it all in my head, mini-rant about sloppy writing, and then carry on. Yes, I can take a moment to recast what’s written and figure out what is meant, but should I have to go through all that?

And honestly, I still don’t feel the original sentence in the OP is clear.

My two cents. The sentence is both ambiguous and accurate. I got the meaning on first reading, aided by the fact that it’s a relatively short sentence. A longer one with such a “remove” between contingency and verb would have been more of a problem. So, had I spotted the ambiguity, I would have recast the sentence. But I don’t think it’s surprising the ambiguity wasn’t noticed. It’s not a howler.

Right, because strictly speaking, the sentence as originally worded makes no sense, so the reader has to re-interpret it.