[QUOTE=Phlosphr]
I feel that discussing the tenents of AA with someone who clearly does not wish to relate any sort of efficacy to the steps is barking up the wrong tree. There are people across the country and the globe who have found comfort and self-awareness by following a 12 step program. The reason it has been arounf for 80 years is because it works, it would have gone the way of the doto if it didn’t work.
[/QUOTE]
Please provide some sort of cite that factually proves AA “works.” Because, as I posted upthread and was ignored, the facts don’t support your assertion in any meaningful way vis-a-vis any other sort of treatment. Specifically, treatments that deal with both the phychological and medical without the "Higher “Power” bullshit.
From link provided in aforementioned post:
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Now then, read that quote a couple of times, especially the part I highlighted, and come back here and tell us with a straight faith that it “works.” Sure, it may have for you and the others than fit into that 5% success rate, but please, I’d hardly cite said ridiculous percentages as proof that AA “works.”
OTOH, I’ll also repeat what I said in my previously, if you’re part of that 5%, well then, bully for you. But please – and I say this as someone who’s attended more than his share of AA meetings* – don’t try to sell me on the idea that AA isn’t anything other than an offshoot of both religious indoctrination (admittedly, of wide scope on the surface) and the simple psychological method of group therapy. I’m very glad we have some of those 5%'s on-board and wish them continued abstinence, but please, don’t piss on my leg and tell me it is raining.
*Creepy and completely ineffective for me. I’ve dealt with, when and how I drink, pretty much on my own with the odd consultation with a therapist or two. Guess I could claim a 100% success rate using my method. Incredibly enough, I have no higher power, sponsor, or 12 step program to adhere to. Nope, no sir, the power to stop/moderate my drinking had nothing to do with sky-pixies and/or stern “sponsors” who did little more than try to shame the hell out of me and convince me it was “their way or the highway.” Besides beeing somewhat of a rebel even at my age, I fucking hate “group-think.” Never mind the fact that the whole “higher power” stchik reeks of some sort of undefined witnessing.
No thanks Simply not for me – my alchol compsumtion is right where I want it and very much under control. I can go for weeks at a time as a complete teatotadler just as I can go into a few nights of excesses. Normally my body and mind are my barometers. I simply don’t feel the need to tell any number of strangers – some of which are obviously already impaired by their boozing --why and how I drink. My privacy is just that, my privacy.
“It works if you work it.” No shit, Sherlock. 'cept that I have my own ways of working things out and none of them involve “higher powers” of any kind. In my life, I am my own god – with all the good, bad and indifferent behavior that carries. I like to keep that way as opposed to revealing it to a bunch of strangers whose only communality is a fondness for excess. Be it drugs or alcohol, or whatever new fad avails itself with twelve-stepping programs.
Know your facts. And at least try to know thyself. Therein lies the “cure.” Or it does for me anyway. I rather like rationality and I simply can’t see myself worshiping a pet-rock as my higher-power.
Pretty much all I have to say on the topic, thus don’t expect many/any replies from me. Like I said, I’ve heard all the BS before – not only have I developed a thick skin in the process, but I am sure AA’s cult-like methods are simply not for moi.
What say we raise our glasses and toast to all of us that have reached our goals no matter what the method? Then gain, I have a hard time toasting for a 5% recovery rate.
Wish all you problem-drinkers out there that you find your own way to deal with said problem. Again, AA is certainly not a cure-all program, but if it works for you, stick to it. I’ll even sell you a higher powered pet-rock.
Cash only please.
Many thanks.
I will keep going to my AA meetings and enjoying my life.