ARG220, please remember that this is NOT the Great God Debate thread. Thank you.
Slythe: I was just responding to Hannu’s post. Besides, this whole “Arrrrgghhh!” thread is about either me, hell, or religion.
BTW, Kat: Is the title of this thread a direct insult on my screen name? If so, I must say it’s clever. (I’ll never understand why my parents CHOSE my initials to be A.R.G.)
Adam
Um, no, ARG, “Argh” is the generally accepted phonetic spelling of a person screaming. Not everything is about you.
And this thread is not expressly about you, Hell or religion but rather about expressing frustration about people who have no reading comprehension in regards to ideas that contradict decisions they made when they were 7 years old. Close-mindedness is also an acceptable topic.
Please note, this is the BBQ Pit, so if you continue to post in this thread in the vein you do on other threads, I reserve the right to call you God-boy in my next response.
Kat… speaking of decisions made by 7 year olds…
I think it should be considered child abuse to make a child attend any kind of religious training before the age of 16. It’s a form of mind control.
I really abhor the idea that parents sort of “own” their children, so they can mold their minds in any ol’ way they please. Yuck.
I am forever thankful that I was raised a heathen, that I might make my own decisions and discoveries when I was old enough to be asking the questions.
(And no, I am not an atheist!)_
Stoidela
Don’t meddle in the affairs of dragons, cuz, like, you’re crunchy
and taste good with ketchup.
Stoidela wrote:
I couldn’t disagree more. That’s like saying, “I think it should be considered child abuse to warn children about potential hazards and dangers that they will face growing up in today’s world. Let their minds be free. Let them learn all lessons in life the hard way, instead of instilling an enduring value system in their minds when they are young, thus enabling them to avoid making bad choices. Why, if I were to warn my child against taking illegal drugs, for instance, I would be practicing ‘mind control’ over him!”
I will draw fire by saying this, but I believe that a good religious and moral upbringing is essential to the child’s present and future welfare.
Are you implying that one must be religious to be moral or ethical? Methinks this can of worms comes with a free can of whoop ass.
No, I’m not.
Than perhaps you meant to say “religious OR moral upbringing”, not “religious AND moral upbringing”?
No, I meant religious AND moral. But that’s just my ideal. I’m not trying to force it on you by any means. My kids (if I ever have any) will be raised the way I want to raise them, and I’m perfectly willing for you to raise your kids the way you see fit. Peace, okay? I’m not trying to provoke hostility or anything.
I’m going to go to a place of eternal torment. God must really love me!
PS All the hot dogs may be in heaven, but I bet they don’t have good condiments.
ARG:
I am quite aware of the “existance” of hell. I went to a Christian school for five years, but emerged relatively unscathed and undoctrinated despite the best efforts of my teachers. I am extremely familiar with the Bible (still can recite enormous chunks of it by heart.) Just wanted you to know that before you shake your head and chalk me up to being a godless heathen blathering about something I don’t understand.
So, without further ado, my explanation about my hell post.
There is an obscure concept out there known as “humor,” in which statements are worded in a clever or ironic way that makes people experiance a phenomenon known as “laughter.”
Sometimes, these statements are referred to as “jokes,” and they are occasionally described as being “funny.”
'Nuff said.
Lissa*
** Name has been changed to protect the guilty.*
Snark:
It is not in the slightest way similar to what you are saying here. I am not advocating anything like that. Of course we must bring up children with strong values and a moral outlook. And such values are BETTER instilled by means OTHER than religion. Why? Because if your value system and morals are based on a religion, and a belief that “God wants it”, they are shaky at best, especially if in the end, like many do, you stop believing in that God. Where is your center then? If your whole reason for being good disappears, why be good? Why not just go shoot up a McDonalds?
If your system of values and morality is founded on a strong sense of self, respect for yoruself and others, a desire to be part of the human community, etc., then it lasts. One’s beliefs can come and go and be questioned, while the root of your value system remains firm.
Morality based on a religion is simply a means of turning adult human beings back into children afraid of their parents disapproval. I think it much more rewarding to be good because you want to be, because you want to like yourself when you get up in the morning. Because you value yourself and others, not from fear of anything.
Stoidela
Don’t meddle in the affairs of dragons, cuz, like, you’re crunchy
and taste good with ketchup.
Since this is the BBQ room…I am really tired of people who want to save you for your own good. Listen, all you well-meaning, non-violent, loving, non-fruitcake Christians (so you say)- leave me alone- don’t do me any favors - I don’t want to be saved for my own good! I don’t want to hear about the wonders of salvation, or what a friend we have in Jesus. I am not interested. Heaven always sounded to me like an interminable Rotarian awards luncheon, anyway. It’s YOUR hell, YOU burn in it!
Stoidela wrote:
I agree. And so does my religion. In fact, the LDS church teaches that it is important to examine our motives, whether we are doing good because we love our God and fellow man, or whether we are looking for rewards, or whether we are just looking to avoid punishment. In fact, the LDS church emphasizes that if we don’t have proper motives for our good actions, we won’t get the highest/best rewards for them.
So if I mow my ill neighbor’s lawn because I love him and have concern for him, my motives are much better than if I mow it just to secure blessings from God, which in turn is better than mowing it in order to avoid being punished for NOT mowing it. Doing the right thing for the right reason is emphasized strongly. I have a lot of trouble in this area, personally. I tend to do things only to gain blessings or avoid punishment, so I guess you could say that I try to do the right things, but for the wrong reasons. I need to work on that. 
Lissa: There are certain things that are ok to poke fun at. Then there are serious things that deserve our respect. Hell is a place of ETERNAL TORMENT. Why do you make light of it? Ok, let’s assume that you think it’s pretend. Still, why would you make fun of it?
And yes, this is the BBQ Pit. So, why should any of you care what goes on here, or what I say? I assumed this was a place where anything could be said.
Adam
ARG, I must tell you something very important. Heed this message or die! I am the Leprechaun Queen, the One True magical imp, and your disbelief in me has saddened me. Hark! Did I not send my only begotten son, Lucky, to bear witness of me (check your Sunday paper for valuable coupons)? I have announced my Kingdom on all major network and cable channels; you cannot claim you have not heard my good news. Those who wish to enter my paradise must have faith in me; unfortunately they will eventually perish but in the meantime they will be magically delicious!
Yea Holly, that’s really cute. Like I said, it’s all fun and games now. But when you die, your chances are gone. You do believe you’re going to die don’t you? Or is that all fun and games too. Don’t make fun a belief system that’s been around since the beginning of man. And I may not believe in what Mormons, Muslims, Bhuddists, or even Catholics believe in, but I don’t make light of their beliefs.
Adam
No, you don’t make fun of them, you just insist that they are wrong and they’re all going to hell too.
Can you prove I’m not the Leprechaun Queen?
I’m not afraid to die. Are you?
ARG220, I will use small, easy to understand sentences.
It is not that I don’t respect religion.
Though I don’t believe, I respect religion.
I just don’t respect YOU.
You are not god.
When we critisize you, we are NOT critisizing religion.
O.K.?
To add to Slythe’s comments (not quite as simple, so don’t be afraid to ask about anything you don’t understand, ARG):
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“Applying a healthy skepticism to information given to you by a church established and run by human beings” is not the same thing as “doubting God”.
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“Parroting church doctrine” is not the same as “understanding God” or “knowing God”.
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Christianity has not been around since the beginning of man.
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I have no problem with anyone making fun of Hell, because I don’t believe I’m going to Hell, or that you’re going to Hell, or that Mark Twain is going to Hell.
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Surely, if God exists, He must have a sense of humor.
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I have great difficulty (make that “Great Difficulty”) accepting the concept of you having discovered the Ultimate Truth and Complete and Total Understanding of God when no one else in the world has. Live with it.
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Yes, it is arrogant to believe that you and you alone have just happened to discover the Ultimate Truth and Complete and Total Understanding of God when no one else in the world has.
I’m sure I’ll come up with more stuff later.