Ok Slythe: Let me use small sentences so YOU can understand.
I know I am NOT God.
But God is my best friend.
So when you criticise God, you criticize me. OK? And BTW, I never expected any of you to respect me. In fact, from the every beginning, I knew that most of you would grow to hate me for the truths that I speak of.
I, however, respect all of you. That is why I made (and am still making) a conscience effort to be humble, even though many of you have torn me to shreds.
And Holly. No, I can't prove that you're not the Leprachaun Queen. But you also haven't flipped the entire world upside down through your teachings either. People aren't willing to die for you. You haven't earned the respect and love of hundreds of millions of people.
And no, I'm NOT afraid to die. In fact, for me, to die is gain. When I die, I'm going home. Heaven is my home. This earthly body, and earthly life pale in comparison to eternity. I can't wait until Jesus comes to take me, and all my brothers and sisters home.
<ring>
“Hey, Jesus…yeah, time to pick up the kids and take them home…well, they keep squabbling, and they’ve broken a few things, PLUS, they refuse to act properly in restaurants…ok…thanks…bye”
<click>
Phew. He says he’s on His way.
(i did not post to the religion thread…i did not post to the religion thread…i did not…)
How is it that He LOVES us SOOOOOOOO much that he would condemn us to ETERNAL TORMENT?
I can’t believe you buy into that!
God is LOVE…god has no EGO, god doesn’t give a rat’s ass WHAT you do with your life, because God recognizes it’s all just a show. And god certainly has no interest in seeing you or anyone roast in the fires of hell.
How pathetic, how sad that you choose to buy into such a false and human-centered construct of what god is about, when it is so much simpler than that, so much easier…
Oh well… to each his own.
Stoidela
Don’t meddle in the affairs of dragons, cuz, like, you’re crunchy
and taste good with ketchup.
You seem unable to get it through your thick brain-washed skull that no one here is criticizing God. What they are doing is making fun of your narrow, bigoted conception of God. God is far too merciful and good to get ticked off at people using the brains He gave them. The belief that he could have had literally BILLIONS of other people whom He will allow to be tortured FOREVER just because they don’t agree with what YOUR ignorant little red-neck congregation has been told by their preacher is an incredible INSULT to God. I am sure that He will forgive you for this if you just learn a little HUMILITY and admit that, as a fallible human, you may just be mistaken despite what has been drummed into your mind for the past 2/3rds of your life.
Oh, and as this is the BBQ Pit, I don’t even have to pretend to respect your opinions. As I am much older than you, I am sure that I will be Judged before your turn. If you show any indication that you are willing to learn and consider God as a loving father (and a loving father DOES NOT PLAY FAVORITES among his children, despite what every culture has believed) rather than a petty, capricious and cruel despot, I might consider putting in a good word for you to the Judge. Otherwise, you will have to answer to Him for the hatred you show to the majority of His peoples and the way you wasted the potential of your mind by just parroting “hosannas”.
Dr. Fidelius, Charlatan
Associate Curator Anomalous Paleontology, Miskatonic University
“You cannot reason a man out of a position that he did not reach through reason.”
Unfortunately, yes. See “The Great God Debate, Parts 1-5” for more details. Scary, ain’t it?
Oh, and Adam?
No, you’ve just said Muslims were wrong and evil, that Catholics and Mormons weren’t Christians, and that Mormonism was a “cult.” If that isn’t making light of their beliefs, explain to me what the hell is. sigh You know, it’s people like you that keep convincing me to quit being a Christian. Believe whatever the hell you want, just don’t try and force it down our throats.
“Hindu Muslim Catholic creation-evolutionist”
-Neil Peart, RUSH, “You Bet Your Life”
Ok Kat. I’ll respond to your observations in order. You said: "1) “Applying a healthy skepticism to information given to you by a
church established and run by human beings” is not the same thing as
“doubting God”.
“Parroting church doctrine” is not the same as “understanding God” or
“knowing God”.
Christianity has not been around since the beginning of man.
I have no problem with anyone making fun of Hell, because I don’t
believe I’m going to Hell, or that you’re going to Hell, or that Mark
Twain is going to Hell.
Surely, if God exists, He must have a sense of humor.
I have great difficulty (make that “Great Difficulty”) accepting the
concept of you having discovered the Ultimate Truth and Complete and
Total Understanding of God when no one else in the world has. Live with
it.
Yes, it is arrogant to believe that you and you alone have just
happened to discover the Ultimate Truth and Complete and Total
Understanding of God when no one else in the world has."
Well, um…what? You are not only apllying skepticism, but you’re flat out denying the teachings of Christianity. You’ve denied Jesus, and denied God.
Hmmm, no. I’m not parroting anything. The only doctrine I’ve mentioned is straight from the Bible. And if I’ve made my own observations, they are made from the Bible.
I never said “Christianity” has been around since the beginning of man. And God has been around forever. He spoke to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. He was with the Israelites in the Old Testament. He has been teaching humans how to live since the very beginning.
I know you don’t believe in hell. That much is painfully obvious.
God gets joyful, and happy. But you have mocked Him. Repeatedly. (Well, maybe not YOU Kat, but others have) Just know this: God does not like to be mocked. 'nuff said.
6 and 7) These two points tie together. Now. -Sigh- I have never said I’ve attained supreme knowledge, and that only I know the truth. I did say, that I know the ONLY truth. Do you see the subtle difference? Millions before me, and millions after me will learn of these same truths, i.e. the character of God, His love, His Son, and His laws.
NOBODY has the mind to comprehend God fully. Nobody can come close. But I seek to learn more of Him every day. I want to gain as much knowledge of God as I possibly can. It’s not out of arrogance. It’s out of love.
Ok Slythe: Well, to make a long story short, I’m not lonely. God is just as real as you, my neighbor, or the guy down at the corner store. And I can talk to Him, and guess what? He talks back. He is a living God. And His Son Jesus lives in my heart. Like I’ve said a million times, it’s a beautiful relationship.
Moving right along…Dr. F: Um, I’m sorry, but your post made no sense whatsoever. Have you read what I’ve been saying in the other five threads? It is I who’s trying to convince all of YOU that God is loving, and merciful. Maybe you should read my posts. Please.
Falcon: I've spoken the truth to you all, in love. Sometimes it comes of harshly, but I've never made fun of any religions, or beliefs. I respect the fact that each person believes they are right. Each religion thinks they have all the answers. But I'm sorry. No, actually, I'm not sorry...God is God, Jesus is the Savior of the world, and the Bible is the truth. There are no two ways about it.
Maybe one of the problems is ARG220’s definition of “LOVE”. His definition is “God is love, therefore anything god does is love.”
Using this logic, women are subjugated out of “love”. Children are beaten out of “love”.
Gays are hated and sometimes killed out of “love”.
In a human, this behavior of hurting others out of “love” is psychopathic and considered highly dangerous.
From now on, I REFUSE to let the likes of ARG220 steal a word I use towards my wife and my child, and use it to insult, hate, or destroy.
I think that folks like ARG are doing God a disservice. By not questioning behaviors which we would not tolerate in a fellow human being, and forgiving these behaviors simply because the perpetrator is the Supreme Being, they are being enablers. So long as they do not hold their deity to the standards that civilized humans demand of themselves, they will have a deity with the morals of a child holding a burning glass above an anthill.
I refuse to appease a tyrant. I cannot accept a god who would create billions of sentient souls and allow them to be tortured for eternity. ARG has made it quite clear that he believes that is the fate of any persons who do not worship the Bible in the exact same manner as his little cult.
I do not know why God has decided to reveal Himself in different ways to different peoples. But, as every culture produces sincere and good people, I must accept that the path I chose (or which was chosen for me by the accident of my birth into this culture) is no more or less “The Truth” than the paths found by others. I do reserve the right to judge other paths based upon their effects on the general welfare of the world.
A soul can only be damned for conscious actions, not for the circumstances of its birth. Otherwise the Judge is a petty despot.
Dr. Fidelius, Charlatan
Associate Curator Anomalous Paleontology, Miskatonic University
“You cannot reason a man out of a position that he did not reach through reason.”
I know what love is. Do you? In fact, I use the word “love” very sparingly, because it’s a powerful word. I know this is the BBQ Pit, but I feel the need to print up Scripture on what love is. Well, I’ll just give you the refference. It’s in 1 Corinthians chapter 13. It’s known as the “Love chapter” of the Bible.
Now to Dr. F: You say, "A soul can only be damned for conscious actions, not for the
circumstances of its birth. Otherwise the Judge is a petty despot."
Ok. You've chosen not to listen to God. You've chosen not to believe in the Bible. You are chosing your fate. So don't cry when God throws you in hell.
As for the circumstances of birth: Well, it’s doubtful that any American has not heard, or been offered the Gospel. So that takes care of this entire country. What about those little bushmen in Africa? Or what about that guy who’s been living in a cave?
Here's your answer: "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--His eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse." Romans 1:20
Birds praise God. Trees praise God. And if humans didn’t praise God, then Jesus says, “the stones will cry out.”
Adam, thank you for making my point stronger. And with a Bible quote, yet. “For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities–His eternal power and divine nature–have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.” Romans 1:20
Yup, God’s invisible qualities have been clearly perceived by every culture. And every culture has done its best to interpret those qualities, and all have come up with different ways to praise God. (Whether they believe in Him or not, I also believe that any person who honestly comes to the conclusion of atheism, so long as they also “Love their neighbors as themselves” will be in for a pleasant surprise.)
In every culture there are sincere and good people who try their best to live up to what they understand is God’s will. You, however, are willing to have each and every one of them tortured for all eternity because their interpretation of God’s will differ from yours. I hope that you are a good enough Christian to not gloat while your god torments the vast majority of all mankind.
Your blindness in worshipping that destroyer god sickens me. I am sure that God is also appalled that you choose to only recognize the most primitive and petty manifestation of Him.
Oh, and in case any thinks to call me on this point, I am not defying my personal vow to avoid posting on a religion thread. This is not a religious debate, this is the BBQ Pit. So anyone wanting to berate me about this, go pound sand.
Yes, but I thought you said that Roman Catholics aren’t Christian, and that Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses are cults. I think it is unlikely that everyone in America has heard your version of the gospel.
Well, damn them to hell for not knowing everything they need to know about God! Why not? You’re damning the rest of mankind in your mind, Adam. Somehow I think that God will be very lenient with those who haven’t heard or been offered your version of the truth, and yet have lived good, honorable lives according to the dictates of their own consciences. Otherwise he wouldn’t be Just. Give people some slack and (should I say it, or will this offend you?) Mercy.
Dr: You said: “I am sure that God is also appalled that you choose to only recognize
the most primitive and petty manifestation of Him.”
Ok, what??? Have you read ANY of my other posts in the GGD? I’ve told of God’s undying love, His mercy, His faithfulness, His justice…where have you been? I think you’ve got some reading to do.
Snark: You know what? I'm not sure how God will judge the bushman. I know that God is merciful. But the bushman has seen the evidence of God, so he has no excuse.
And stop saying that I'm damning everyone to hell. My word. I wish that ALL of us would go to heaven. EVERYONE in the WORLD! But you people twist my words around, or read between the lines. Sheesh. I've been saying the same things since way back in the original Great God Debate. My hope that you all of you Straight Dopers will get saved is diminishing by the minute here. Some of you don't even WANT to go to heaven. What's wrong with you? Hmm, let's see. Option 1) Go to heaven where it's going to be PERFECT for eternity. Or Option 2) Burn FOREVER in hell. My my my, what do you think it's the better option?
You may think God is cruel, evil, and a tyrant. (all of which is totally NOT true) But at least you’d live in a perfect realm. Why do you chose to burn in hell? YOU all are the crazy ones. NOT me.
Wow, that was the first time I’ve actually vented my frustrations. -Sigh- You all are impossible. Just impossible.