Adam wrote:
I disagree. I think there are degrees of knowledge about God, and that God will judge a person perfectly, not just a “one size fits all” judgment. I believe in degrees of salvation, and degrees of damnation, and that God’s judgment varies from individual to individual, according to each person’s works, faith, understanding, love, etc.
Sorry. I thought that was what you were saying.
Arg:
And I think that if anything, God is laughing himherself silly.
Here’s one for ya: THERE IS NO EVIL. There is also no good. There is only experience.
Contrary to your “understanding” of God (the Divine) as Judge, the divine is utterly free of judgment. There is only balance, or lack of it.
How can I dream for a moment that there is no good or evil? Quite easily, and logically: Think of people who “do evil”…what are evil deeds? Stealing, murdering, maiming, various and sundry other forms of mayhem. All of which are perpetrated upon the person, the body, the physical realm. Evil can only be done in the physical world, not the spiritual one. Evil isn’t really evil because evil cannot be done to the spirit. Evil is a construct which allows us to experience the world and not be bored to tears.
As for perfection? It exists all around you, in you. In me. In all of us here, in everyone and everything everywhere. Not your idea of perfection, certainly. But true perfection. Because you and most everyone is still caught up in teh definitions of good, bad, right, wrong, positive, negative, we cannot conceive of what we think of as negative as being perfect. But in truth, it is. Because all of the above is an illusion.
It’s just stuff to drive the plot forward.
And your soul knows it.
Your soul made the interesting choice to be a (very old fashioned! You don’t see many like you any more. By the way, what denomination are you, anyway? That fire and brimstone stuff is pretty rare these days…) hardcore God FEARING Bible banging christian, and that’s ok. But it was just a choice, no better or worse than any other…
And quite an experience it’s turning out to be, isn’t it?
stoid
Reincarnation: Life sucks and then you die. And then life sucks again.
God-boy says:
Please point out where I have done so. Post a link or copy and paste where I have done anything other than state that I do not believe your concept of God.
You seem to be confused about what number 1 was in regard to. You do not recall being asked:
You responded “I’m not going to repeat myself about not doubting God” indicating that you believe questioning the information given to you by your church means that you doubt God.
So then, no part of your beliefs were obtained from religious instruction from your parents or your church?
That’s leaving aside the whole “My God exists because the Bible says He does and the Bible is true because God says it is.” thing.
So you didn’t say “Don’t make fun a belief system that’s been around since the beginning of man.”? Or you weren’t talking about Christianity?
And how do you know all this is true? How do you know your God exists? “Because it says so in the Bible”? How do you know the Bible is true? “Because it was written by my God”? Well, how do you know your God exists? “Because it says so in the Bible”? But how do you know the Bible is true? (ad infinitum)
Where have I said that I don’t believe in Hell? I simply don’t believe that all the people you have condemned to Hell simply because their beliefs differ from yours are going there. I certainly believe that it’s possible Hitler went to Hell.
Do you know the difference between being joyful and happy and having a sense humor?
Also, they have not mocked God, they have mocked you and your “narrow, bigoted conception of God.”
Mocking you is not the same as mocking God.
Denying your concept of God is not the same as denying God.
Disagreeing with you is not the same as disagreeing with God.
So, then you deny that it was you who said
“on points 2, and 3 I’d have to say you’ve pretty much gotten it”, in response to being asked:
Aren’t you the one that, when asked what you would do if God appeared to you and told you Himself that you were wrong answered:
?
indicating that “God correcting ARG220” means the same thing as “God contradicting Himself”?
Guess what ARG: if God were to appear to you and tell you that you are wrong HE WOULD NOT BE CONTRADICTING HIMSELF, he would be TELLING YOU THAT YOU ARE WRONG.
And no, you did not say that you are the only one to completely understand God. I said that. Because (1) you claimed to completely understand God and (2) no other human being I’ve ever heard of has ever made that claim. A great many priests, ministers, theologicians(sp?), etc. assert that it is impossible for human beings to completely understand God. Add (1) and (2) together and you get: ARG is the only human to completely understand God. And that’s arrogant.
Guess what else ARG: You are human. You have the capability of being wrong. To deny that you have the capability of being wrong is also arrogant.
Stoid: You think that people like me are rare? Well, I’d guess there are a few dozen million of us Pentacostal Christians. (Which is what I am) So, maybe compared to the nearly 6 billion people on earth, we are a select “few.” Anyway…
What was all that mumbo jumbo about there not being good and evil? Was that a scenario for me? Or do you really believe in all that stuff you metnioned. I'm curious.
Ok, Kat: Guess what? I know I'm human. And I know that I can be wrong. But I've taken most of what I've said straight from the Bible. And THE BIBLE CANNOT EVER be wrong. And I said, "You've PRETTY MUCH gotten it," regarding your questions. So, I was with you, that I understand God. For goodness sake...little children understand God. His truths are SIMPLE. This stuff isn't rocket science. It's EASY Kat. Simple stuff. Yet you make it so complex, and make God out to be this big mystery.
People far less intelligent than you and I are capable of grasping God's truths. But for some reason, you just don't get it. And it's not just you Kat, it's many people on this board. Why do you all have to make God so complex?
Oh, and about you and hell Kat. You said: "4) I have no problem with anyone making fun of Hell, because I don't
believe I’m going to Hell, or that you’re going to Hell, or that Mark
Twain is going to Hell."
Ok Kat. I apologize. I misunderstood that paragraph. It looks like you believe in hell, but only think it's for the real scum of the earth. Well, I have news for you. Hitler may not go to hell. What if, on his death bed, he professed the name of Jesus, and made Him his Lord and Savior. Well, if big bad Hitler really meant that prayer in his heart, then God will forgive Him for all his hideous acts, and grant him eternal life.
Now, I doubt that Hitler accepted Jesus into his heart, so it’s a really safe bet that he’ll be cookin’ forever. But I’m just saying, that no sin is too great to be forgiven by God.
Adam
ARG220 writes:
If God was actually your “best friend”, he wouldn’t let you make such a fool of yourself in public!
And he’d probably also advise you to get a clue and stop giving him such a bad name.
jodih nearly induced respiratory arrest when she wrote:
Where were you when we needed you for Dragonfly99’s posts in the “subliminal” threads? DF is the uncontested master of the inane non sequitur! His stuff is a lot funnier than ARG’s! (but at least there’s no so much of it!)
Well, if he has any taste (and assuming he exists), I’m sure he’ll invite me right in!
Arg:
You failed to address Kat’s discussion of the truth of the Bible. You say:
And why not? And who told you the bible that you read is the “Right” bible? Must have been a living breathing human, right? And how do you know that THEY are right? The bible you use is different in many particulars from a bible translated directly from the original texts.
So which bible can’t ever be wrong?
Speaking of which, you ARE aware, are you not, that millions and millions and millions of people use the same Bible you do and yet do not interpret it as you do? Because you DO interpret it…you must, since the Bible is many things, but straightforward and consistent it is not. So while for the sake of this argument I shall momentarily concede the infallibility of the Bible, we still have to contend with figuring out who among us is infallible in his or her understanding and interpretation of the words therein.
Right?
And as for what I believe, yes, I believe what I said. But I also believe that we because we all make choices it is entirely possible that we all experience exactly the afterlife we are expecting. So while you may sit on clouds with harps and hang out at the feet of jesus, others will be reincarnated, and still others will experience a black void.
You get what you expect in this life…why not the same in the one after, eh?
(And while it doesn’t offend me in the least, since I don’t require anyone’s approval of my beliefs, you might want to check your use of terms like “mumbo jumbo” to refer to things you don’t understand. Particularly when you say you respect the beliefs of others. That kind of derision belies your claim.)
Stoidela
Don’t meddle in the affairs of dragons, cuz, like, you’re crunchy
and taste good with ketchup.
Except that according to your sick logic, he will toss billions of good people into the fiery pits of hell because they aren’t like you.
Yeah, sounds like undying love, mercy, faithfulness, and justice to me.
>^,^<
KITTEN
He who walk through airport door sideways going to Bangkok. - Confucius
Stoid: I didn’t address Kat’s comments about the Bible, because they’ve already been discussed at great length in the other 5 threads. I know that the Bible is God’s Holly word. It’s truth cannot be denied. And I know that there are millions upon millions that don’t interpret the Bible as I do. They’re called Catholics, and Baptists, and Methodists…etc. For instance, Baptists, although I know they are saved, deny the gift of speaking in tongues. Why? Who knows…I’ll never understand why, since it’s right there in the Bible.
But there are also millions who interpret the Bible just as I do. They’re called Pentacostal Christians. Or Full Gospel Christians. And like me, they don’t pick and chose parts of the Bible. It’s ALL true.
About my use of the words “mumbo jumbo.” Well, I apologize. I repsect your right to believe in that, and I do believe you are serious about it too. So I didn’t mean to make light of it…I just think it’s wrong.
And Diane: Actually, I didn't know what parroting meant until I looked it up in my trusty dictionary. So, I know what it means, and I know that I haven't done it.ALL of the bible is true?
As easy as this is to have fun with, I’ll wait my turn for just a little bit.
Batter UP!
In the name of Marduk, Adam, do you ever read what you write or think before posting?
Any tyranny looks “perfect” to those who feel they benefit from sucking up to the tyrant. So long as you feel that you have an inside track to the favor of the despot you are perfectly willing to APPROVE of his torturing almost every other soul who has ever lived. Any deity who wants my respect has to have higher morals than you are willing to invest him with. If God is as petty and cruel as who wish Him to be, then I will gladly go to Hell itself rather than compromise my ethics by supporting such injustice.
Fortunately, I believe with every fibre of my being that you are wrong, and you are just projecting your own xenophobia and weakness onto the Deity. I predict that if you ever get an education, you will begin to doubt what your preachers have told you. And, because you have no experience thinking for yourself, you will blame God for the blinders you have been cheerfully wearing and become one of the agressively anti-religionist athiests.
Dr. Fidelius, Charlatan
Associate Curator Anomalous Paleontology, Miskatonic University
“You cannot reason a man out of a position that he did not reach through reason.”
Dr. Fidelius:
Oh, I don’t think anyone who has swallowed so much in such an intact condition could ever become an atheist. He needs some kind of religion.
So let’s take bets…I have $5 sez Wiccan!
Stoidela
Don’t meddle in the affairs of dragons, cuz, like, you’re crunchy
and taste good with ketchup.
I’m not gonna go into my personal beliefs here; I do want to clear up a common misconception. I’ve noticed that many of you, believers and nonbelievers alike, refer to hell as some kind of eternal suffering. A good Christian friend of mine who is quite a theologian says that people(or their souls or whatever) who go to hell do NOT “burn forever” but are simply incinerated and then no longer exist at all. I can handle that.
“Some people hate sin more than they love the Lord.” --who said that first?
…“God’s holly word.”
Is that like “holly jolly Christmas?”. (Sorry, couldn’t resist!) ALL of the Bible is “true”? I don’t profess to be a theological scholar, but I do think it was meant to be interpreted. Besides, wasn’t most of it found in some jars in the desert? How do you KNOW it’s the actual word of God?- I mean, it was written down by someone- it didn’t appear on the side of a mountain in burning script ala Cecil B. DeMille. The fact that some human agency was involved makes it highly unlikely it had any sort of divine origin. The Bible, especially the Old Testament, reads to me more like legends or folk tales, like Beowulf or the Epic of Gilgamesh.
Stoidela–
Odin All-Father protect me, but I now have a vision of Adam standing nekkid in a field somewhere awaiting the solstice. I’m going to have to watch a pig being slaughtered to get the image out of my mind.
After thinking about it, maybe he would turn to another creed. Since he likes having his preacher think for him, I’d put money on $cientology…
Tenn–
I like that interpretation, but Adam would not be satisfied unless I have an eternity of torment.
Yes, many of us have read your posts to the GGD…what we got from this is:
G-d = love --> love = allowing people to “burn for eternity” for questioning.
Do you not see a problem equating these? Do you think maybe a supreme being might have more important things to do than d*mn all the non-christians?
<Sigh>…the bushman probably has seen the evidence of G-d. Here’s the kicker…he simply interprets the evidence differently. Should he burn for that? If he does, then G-d is an unreasonable tyrant…
Sorry, I guess it would be more correct to say that G-d is damning everyone to hll. Especially those LDS and JW ‘cults’…Lord forbid people think differently in this world.
option 1)Go through life never questioning anything and living an empty shell of an existence 2)question, learn, grow, understand…hmmm, what’s the better option here.
Let’s look back at all those Bible quotes you’ve posted. Since you’ve never questioned the Bible (it is, after all, the only truth), you simply accept the truth of these verses. How does one understand something they’ve never questioned? Don’t tell me…G-d told you so.
“True irreverence is disrespect for another man’s god.” – Mark Twain
“Such is the human race. Often it does seem such a pity that Noah and his party did not miss the boat.” – Mark Twain
“Loyalty to petrified opinions never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul in this world-and never will.” – Mark Twain
Here’s a notion:
Arg isn’t a Pentecostal Christian at all. In fact, Arg is a hardened atheist. He just really likes attention, and he’s learned that this is the most effective way to get it. After all, look at how many people are arguing with him ALONE. So far as I’ve been able to see (and I grant that I haven’t read everything around here) he is the ONLY one defending the hard-line Christian viewpoint. And look at how much energy he’s creating around himself by doing it.
It’s telling, don’t you think, that the Straight Dope seems to attract so few of the Christian persuasion… I guess that as a group they are allergic to both accurate information and humor.
Stoidela
Don’t meddle in the affairs of dragons, cuz, like, you’re crunchy
and taste good with ketchup.
No, I think that he is the real thing. The trouble is that his only friend(god)doesn’t talk back, and he is VERY lonely.
I mean, can you imagine him having any friends? “When you criticise me, you criticise god, and if you criticise god, you go to hell.” Even a fundamentalist wouldn’t put up with crap like that.
Stoid et al. Well I guess I just got sucked in. I was an athiest for most of my life and am now Christian. No, I didn’t get baptized and start speaking in tongues. I just believe in God and pray with my wife. Still meditate, still believe in the wisdom of the Tao, still read SD. Still think for myself.
Argg just can’t be an individual for whatever reason. Poor guy, he finds some way to be happy and then ruins it by insisting on preaching it here, of all place.
My Born again uncle used to preach in Biker bars. He got less abuse.
Arg said:
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Does that mean that there are MILLIONS like ARG? Aaarrrggghhh!!!
REALLY?
WHY?
YEP. You are right. People as intelligent or far more intelligent than us ARE NOT capable to grasp “God’s truths”. Why do you think that is?
Man! You deserve your own thread…
¡Salud!