Now I sort of wish I’d read the Great God Debate. Had I known that Arg was Pentecostal, I would have known that I was wasting my breath.
In my community, there’s a huge Pentecostal community. A good friend of mine was a member. I attended her church a few times out of curiosity. Now, I’m not saying this is true of all Pentecostal churches, but I was shocked and appalled at the things I witnessed. The precher used “scrptures” that weren’t even in the Bible. He preached the subjugation of women, and hinted that a husband “disciplining” his wife was acceptable.
My friend told me that unless you could speak in tounges, you weren’t “saved” and thus were damned eternally, yadda yadda yadda. I countered with scriptures that were actually in the Bible that stated the contrary. No, she said, I was interpreting it wrong.
So, I pointed out that the Bible is actually against large groups of people speaking in tongues, and if there’s no one that can interpret what is said by a person speaking in tounges, then don’t do it at all. According to Saint Paul, it would just scare off potential converts.
She had attended the Pentecostal church her entire life, and yet had never seen these scriptures. Still, after I showed them to her, she still wouldn’t budge. Too firmly indoctrinated.
To ARG:
I think that your response to my defense of my post was more comical than the post in question was. You really need to lighten up. Seriously. Geesh.
God has a sense of humor. The platypus is a prime example.
I just types a fairly long post, and when I tried to post it, they told me I wasn’t registered, so this is a test before I type the whole bloody thing over again. thanks for bearing with me.
Okay, hang on . . . I don’t really want to join ya’ll in knocking little old Adam around like a religious pinata, but Stoidela says:
Ow, ow, ow! I am a Christian, I like accurate information, and I think I have a sense of humor . . . um, it’s around here somewhere . . . I must have left it in my other coat . . . .
Adam,
Many people on this thread have called you names and been insulting towrads you. In some instantces, I understand their motivation. Nevertheless, BBQ pit or not, I will try to refrain from insulting you. I would, however, suggest that you have not thoroughly considered some of your beliefs. Let’s go back to the Bushmen.
You have repeatedly said that people who do not believe in Christ are going to hell, yet you also said that you are not sure about the fate of the Bushmen. If you are not sure of the fate of the Bushmen, and concede that maybe they are not going to hell, then please modify any future statements about who is and isn’t going to hell.
There is another point I’ve always wondered about. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the bible says that anyone who earnestly seeks god will find him, right? Well, I do a lot of charity work in Nepal (it’s a small country north of India and South of Tibet). Most of the people I work with are Hindus. They are very devout people. In fact, their religion is so incorporated into their lives that there is no word in Nepali which directly corresponds to our English word, “religion”. It is simply not something that one can seperate from the rest of life. These people pray regularly, and they feel a connectedness with god(s). They will attest to having the same sort of spiritual experiences to which Christians attest. They, too, feel that they communicate with god(s), that god(s) guides their lives, and they can give you many examples of the ways god(s) works in their lives. Now, three questions for you: 1) Since they are praying and sincerely seeking communion with god, why are their prayers being answered in a way that encourages and confirms their beliefs in Hinduism? Why isn’t god directing them towrads Christianity? 2) Given that they are as sincere in their beliefs as you are, and experience the same sort of things, how can you (or anyone) possibly know that one religion is right and the other is total hogwash? Everything that you calim demonstrates god working in your life also happens to them. How can you explain this? 3) Imagine a Hindu as sincere in his beliefs as you are in yours trying to convince you that Hinduism was right (this would never happen for reasons I won’t get into here–I am saying this only for the sake of argument). He would never be able to convince you, right? Well what reason does the Hindu have for converting to Christianity? You can provide to him nothing that he doesn’t already get through his own methods of worship. The only thing the Christians add is fear of hell, which many missionaries find a very useful tool. Now, if the hindus really are heathens, and your god would prefer that they come to recognise him as the one true god or face the torments of hell, shouldn’t he give them some reason, some sign that they are on the wrong path?
“I think it would be a great idea” Mohandas Ghandi’s answer when asked what he thought of Western civilization
I have heard this argument many times, an personally I do not believe that God would send a pious Hindu to Hell.
What I want to know is if there are any good biblical cites where jesus discusses a revocation of the 1st commandment. I know what he said about graven images on coins, but what about other religions?
First off, congratulations on finding a path that suits you. May you find peace and fulfillment.
Now, a revocation of the 1st Commandment? The “thou shalt have no other gods before Me?” I don’t believe that it has been overturned or “fulfilled”, and from what I have seen no Jew is having another god before YHWH. Also, that doesn’t seem to be one of the inconvienent sections of the Law that Paul swept under the metaphorical rug, so Christians should still hold to it. I don’t think it applies to anyone who does not recognize the authority of the Law in their religion. What other “gods” were you thinking of? I had thought that an infinite Being can have an infinite number of aspects, depending upon what angle It is viewed from.
Gotta agree with jodih there. I’m a Christian and I also feel that I have a good sense of humor and like accurate information. I’ve seen a number of Christians around here that fit that description. Probably more often than not, the Christians are going to avoid showcasing their personal beliefs on this MB. Incidentally, although he doesn’t come out and say it, Unca Cece strongly implies that he’s Christian in a couple of his columns. In one column he mentions only one known virgin birth in recorded history. A reader wrote in and asked him what he was talking about. Cecil replied that he’d tell her, but feels that it’s pretty well documented.
(How was my sense of humor on this post? Whoo-HOO!! Knee slapper wasn’t it!? < rubbing tears of laughter from my eyes >)
Thanks, Doc. Problems with the first: Praying to saints, the trinity, considering Jesus God, all pop into mind. I guess my thinking was running along the lines of “God delivered the Commandments pre-Jesus. Jesus comes around and changes the rules a bit, and is, well, god. SO two parts of God changes the original rule.” I tend to lean towards judaism a bit.
I would also agree with you that if God is infinite any time you worship, you are worshiping Him. YOu put it well, an infinite god has infinite aspects.
But most specifically, I was if scripture (and not 11th century religious scholars) had re-adressed the first Commandment in light of Jesus.
You have obviously never asked your hypothetical little child to explain his/her concept of God to you.
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People far less intelligent than you and I are capable of grasping God’s truths. But for some reason, you just don’t get it. And it’s not just you Kat, it’s many people on this board. Why do you all have to make God so complex?
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Okay, so it’s gone from “ARG alone understands God” to “ARG and a bunch of less intelligent people understand God”?
Nope. And I’m not going to bother trying to explain what I think about Hell because it’s more complicated than “Everyone who disagrees with my beliefs goes to Hell” so you probably wouldn’t understand it.
Wow. Now it’s me against the board. I can hardly defend myself against two of you, much less ALL of you. But…whatever.
Um, I’m not atheist. I am what I’ve said I am. A born again, Spirit filled Christian. I will never leave God, no matter how many books I read, or how much I study. Frankly, I don’t understand how anybody can claim to believe in God, and then after reading some books, deny His existence. That’s just beyond me.
There have been some 600 (according to my rough estimate) posts on God since I asked all of you, "What are you beliefs on God," back a month ago. I wanted to know the spiritual pulse of this group of people, and I've sure found it.
I think I am misunderstood here. Most of you have read between the lines of my posts, when there were no lines to read
::blatant witnessing snipped by moderator::
Thank you all for letting me share my heart for a bit.
Adam
[Note: This message has been edited by Lynn Bodoni]
I’m sorry. That last post was rude at the beginning. I was frustrated when I started typing, but calmed down half way through. I didn’t mean to be so rude, and I hope all of you will take time to read that post with an open mind. And please forgive my attitude, because that last post is truly from the bottom of my heart. (Well, the second half of it.)
Dear Adam (or ARG):
It doesn’t matter that I disagree with most of what you say. I still respect you as a person who has a right to his own opinions; someone who is just trying to do the best he can with what he has to work with. As a fellow human being, I love you. Because God or Jesus or Buddha or Muhammed or some preacher told me to? No. Simply because it is the right thing to do.
Thanks TennHippie. It’s nice to read a post that I totally agree with. It’s out of love, that I’m even on this message board. It’s out of love that I’m witnessing to all of you. I know I’ve been pretty wacky at times. (Have you been reading the GGD 1-5?) But really, I’ve been totally sincere in every way, even when I SEEM like I’m contradicting myself.
I know some of you will read my post and think, "Well, what if we don't believe a word you say?" You think I want to send you all to hell. (which is so untrue) But here's a better question to all of you:
What if you DO believe what I say?
Well, I for one am not against you, just because I disagree with some of the things you have said. I think you’re a very sincere, loving person and I respect you for sticking up for your beliefs. I think we can agree to disagree on tenets of our respective religions without becoming enemies or anything. And I’m sorry for twisting your words around–anyone who knows me from the old AOL SDMB knows that I do that sometimes. It’s not any fault of yours. I just misunderstand people a lot.
This message board is for discussion, NOT witnessing. You want to discuss, fine, discuss. You want to argue, fine, argue. Don’t expect anyone to accept arguments from authority, either real or nonexistent.
I will not, however, tolerate spam or witnessing or illegal pyramid schemes to be posted on forums under my control. If you want to post spam, post to the BIZ newsgroups. If you want to witness, go post it in a religious-oriented area.
I thought spam was junk e-mail. So, am I spamming? I thought we were debating. The only time I’ve ventured into real witnessing was with my last main post. And what’s an illegal pyramid scheme? Wow, Lynn makes it souns like I’m breaking the law or something.
I have read many, many posts here on the Straight Dope, about countless topics, going back to when it was on AOL. And people have said far worse, and far more offensive things than I have. So, was Lynn directing me to a religious section of the Straight Dope? Or was she basically saying, “pack up and leave if you’re gonna talk that way on my board.” ??
Maybe somebody with more SD expertise can help me understand what's going on here.
I certainly can’t explain it. Given that this is obviously, for the most part, a very intelligent, confident group of people, I cannot imagine why Lynn felt she had to “snip” your witnessing. If I don’t want to read it, I dont’ have to. I certainly don’t need Lynn to spare me from it.
Stoidela, maybe part of the problem is ARG220’s deceptiveness. This all started when he posed the FAKE question enguiring on other’s religious beliefs. It soon became apparent that he was only interested in converting people to HIS rigid beliefs. He only accepts one interpretation of one book as authority, is not interested in any other references whatsoever, has repeatedly told everyone they are going to hell, and is ignoring all arguments to use this as a forum to preach.
I equate this to Jimmy Swaggart, who can’t get airtime on Sunday mornings any more, using cable access as free airtime for his religious/commercial ventures. In a word, sleazy and dishonest.
I approach every new person presuming that they deserve respect. And I try my best to continue to respect that person even if I do not respect their ideas, opinions, or outlook on life. The fastest way to earn my disrespect is through willful and prideful ignorance and intolerance. If a person does not wish to allow others to live (or approach the Deity) as they choose, so long as that manner of life does not negatively impact the lives of others, that person does not deserve my respect.
I am capable of reasonable debate, but I try to adapt to the mores of the venue. As I had said, this is the BBQ pit…
