Aaarrrggghhh!

The BBQ Pit
101

Well, I’m willing to accept Arg’s explanation at face value, that he was taking the religious temperature of the place. Seeing as he is so enthralled with his own religion, it’s obviously a matter of some import to him.

And Dr. F, while I have always found the Christian need to convert everyone deeply distasteful, I have also always understood that it is a deeply ingrained part of the religion. Most Protestant Christian denominations call for their faithful to spread the word in one form or another. As I undeerstand it, it is part and parcel of being a “good” Christian…it is their job to try and save souls through witnessing.

Cuz remember, if you don’t get the Word, you’re going to hell, so it behooves a good Christian to spread it. So I try not to hold it against them.

As for respect? Well, any faith that requires deliberate ignorance (i.e., any faith that demands you swallow the Bible whole as literal truth, all evidence to the contrary notwithstanding) gets no respect from me. It’s the equivalent of saying: “You show your faith by choosing to be blind and stupid” and I don’t have much use for that.

I also have no use for any religion that subjugates (my brain is toast, that spelling looks wrong) women. Which is why I dont’ respect Islam, fundamentalist christianity, Orthodox judaism, etc.

There is a part of the morning prayer for Orthodox Jews that blows my mind: “Thank you God for not making me a woman.” Yikes!

And what really slays me about these religions is that the women PUT UP with it! (Like that ladiesmanifesto broad… good heavens!). Not unlike the women in those cultures (many of them Muslim, interestingly) that practice female genital mutilation…what the fuck is up with THAT???

<shiver>

I’m rambling… gotta go!

Stoidela

Boycott shampoo! Demand REAL poo!

102

When I asked about the religious beliefs of everyone on this message board some time ago, my question was not “fake.” It was an honest inquiry, and I had no hidden motives behind it.

I'm not even sure how I got to "preaching" to you all in the first place. But I was never deceptive in any way.

Nobody has told me what "spam" is yet. Could one of you tell me please?

And Stoidela basically says that I’m blind and stupid for believing what I do. Well, it’s not like I haven’t seen evidence of God. It’s not like I’m following a ghost. I believe the Bible is real, because I’ve seen it change lives. I’ve seen the most vile men around, fall on their face and cry before Jesus. I’ve seen broken familes made whole again by God’s grace. I’ve heard testimonies of cocaine addicts who quit cold turkey, and had no withdrawl symptoms, because of the power of God. I’ve seen frail 85 year old women dance with joy before the Lord, just because He makes them glad to be alive.

I'm not making any of this stuff up to provide a stronger case for God. This is real. I'm not worshipping, and loving a figment of my imagination. I'm loving and serving the living God.

Adam

103

Adam,

I don’t doubt that you have seen/heard the things you claim to, but what would you say if I told you that Hindu’s experience the same thing? I am using the Hindu’s only as an example, but people of many different faiths attest to these same type of experiences. My point (and I think many other peoples as well) is that the evidence you present to justify your beliefs may not be sound. Mind you, I don’t care what you believe and am not asking you to prove anything. I am only saying that by your admittedly limited (if not non-existant) exposure to other religions and their beliefs, you are in no position to judge which one is right. You simply don’t have enough information.

104

Let me be the first to say, “Thank you, Lynn!”

>^,^<
KITTEN

He who walk through airport door sideways going to Bangkok. - Confucius

105

Heeeyy!!! I just realized that Lynn cut off the most important thing I’ve EVER said! Come on! Can she do that? I don’t care, you can delete ALL five Great God debate threads, but why did you have to cut out THAT section??? - heavy sigh- This is rediculous. :frowning:

 Lucky: I stopped being judgemental a while ago. And I do not know enough about Hinduism, or any other religion or cult to make a strong defense. I don't know what I'd say to a Hindu. I know I'd speak of God's love. But I really hate arguing, because, as we've seen here...it gets us nowhere.

 I still can't believe that my post got hacked to bits. As Vizzini would say, it's.."Inconceivable!!"

Adam

106

I really, really, really, dislike Adam and anyone like him who completely devalues the entire idea and import of the word “love” by claiming, “I love all people.” Bullshit. That makes the entire idea of love in any of its forms completely meaningless.

Adam, you are a little boy, with little boy thoughts and little boy ideas. Rather than contempt, I feel nothing but pity for you. How sad that the world is still encumbered by people who think the way you do.

107

Hey, it’s PLdennison again. Long time no see. Hmm, you call me a little boy, and think that I have little boy ideas. Well big bad PL, why haven’t you answered my question yet? What happened to you that made you go from somebody like me, who loves God, to your current atheist condition. Hmmm? You ever going to answer me?

For somebody who I could have called “brother,” you are certainly acting immature. You say you feel pity for me. Then tell me your story PL. Tell me why it’s pitiful to believe in God. And as for love? Well, I’m afraid that you don’t know what love is.
I just want to know what happened to you. How did you go from Spirit filled Christian, to ornery atheist.

Adam

108

Wow, that was astute!! Thanks for the recap.

Because I don’t feel obligated to tell you my life story; it’s irrelevant.

Even when I was religious, son, I was never like you.

Insofar as we are both Homo sapiens, sure.

My wife breathlessly awaits your piercing analysis. We celebrate our 8th wedding anniversary in just over two weeks.

Ornery atheist? Grow up, kid. Suffice to say that I actually learned things about life and the world, about culture and mythology, about rationality and irrationality, about the difference between truth and facts, stopped needing scary scapegoats, and stopped needing invisible friends.

109

PL says:

[quote]
Grow up, kid. Suffice to say that I actually learned things about life
and the world, about culture and mythology, about rationality and
irrationality, about the difference between truth and facts, stopped
needing scary scapegoats, and stopped needing invisible friends.

[quote/]

 Ok, so let me translate that. Your faith in God was never THAT strong to begin with. When someone's faith in God is tested, they usually tend to get stronger. But you fell away. And the saddest part is that you think you're going to be ok now. You think this life is better than your old one. You think you're wiser now that you've read all those books, and studied all that information.

When in fact, you’ve lost everything Pldennison. And my friend, it is I, who feels pity, for you.

Adam

110

I hate to join a fight late but… Better late than never. HOLLY, your post on the 29th about my only begotten son Lucky? That fuckin’ slayed… Had to pinch myself to keep from wetting my pants. Just thinking about it is making me laugh all over again… Anyway.

ARG is not going to leave us alone. It is a part of his belief system to go out and preach the gospel. He thinks he is doing us a favor, for our own good and his personal salvation as well. I honestly believe he is well meaning but it his intentions come across as callow and vindictive to non-Bible-thumpers. Kind of like a senile grandmother trying to get you to eat your carrots. It is best to smile and nod, then spit the carrots into your napkin to feed to the dog when the opportunity arises. To try to convert someone is not a bad thing… merely annoying. He looks at us like children unknowingly playing Russian Roulette and we look at him like he is an asshole because he doesn’t realize the gun is made of chocolate.

111

Hmmm, let’s see. . . since I stopped believing in fairy tales, I:

–completed college
–got a great job
–have received regular bonuses, most recently a $3,500 bonus 2 weeks ago
–have a great 8-years-and-counting marriage to a woman I love very much
–live in a great house in a great neighborhood
–have nearly everything I want, except for not having my student loans paid off yet
–am happier than I’ve ever been in my life.

Yeah, I’m suffering, kid. I’m really tormented because I’m not part of the puerile WWJD club, and I don’t get to pretend that invisible imps are making my car break down or that muscular guys with wings are kicking their asses whenever I say the magic word.

Please, spare me your platitudes. The most sophisticated argument anyone has ever seen from you is, “The Bible is absolute literal truth because it says it is.” I’ve seen more solid theology on “Highway to Heaven.”

I could take everything you know about life, reality, truth, and the world, put it in a very small thimble, and have room left over. I’m not sure where you think you have the grounds to make any claims to wisdom, knowledge or pity, but you are in for some sad, sad revelations at some point in your life.

112

"I thought spam was junk e-mail. So, am I spamming? I thought we were debating. The only time I’ve ventured into real witnessing was with my last main post. And what’s an illegal pyramid scheme? Wow, Lynn makes it souns like I’m breaking the law or something.
I have read many, many posts here on the Straight Dope, about countless topics, going back to when it was on AOL. And people have said far worse, and far more offensive things than I have. So, was Lynn directing me to a religious section of the Straight Dope? Or was she basically saying, “pack up and leave if you’re gonna talk that way on my board.” ?? " Adam

Spam is unwanted junk email, or unwanted posts on a message board/newsgroup, usually commercial, but occasionally religious or political in nature. The term spam was first used to refer to multiple posts on newsgroups. It has since been expanded to include email.

I did not mean to imply that ARG was involved in a pyramid scheme. However, someone HAS posted a URL containing a pyramid scheme in the past, and I have deleted or changed it. I put that in my post as an example of what I will modify or delete.

"I certainly can’t explain it. Given that this is obviously, for the most part, a very intelligent, confident group of people, I cannot imagine why Lynn felt she had to “snip” your witnessing. If I don’t want to read it, I dont’ have to. I certainly don’t need Lynn to spare me from it.

Seems pretty low to me…" Stoidela

Because I don’t want this to turn into a “witnessing” MB. I’ve seen it happen to other areas. And to be consistent, I’m going to snip ALL witnessing. So far, I’ve gotten one public thank you and over a dozen private emails thanking me.

"Heeeyy!!! I just realized that Lynn cut off the most important thing I’ve EVER said! Come on! Can she do that? I don’t care, you can delete ALL five Great God debate threads, but why did you have to cut out THAT section??? - heavy sigh- This is rediculous. " Adam

Not only CAN I do it, I did do it. I cut out that section because it was witnessing. You are not interested in hearing other viewpoints, you only wish to convert people to your own sect. You have shown no evidence that you respect or even understand other people’s beliefs, nor do you show any sign of doing so in the future. Like I said earlier, you want to discuss, fine. You want to argue, fine. But the Straight Dope is NOT meant to be an outlet for frustrated would-be preachers. Go to Keyword: Spirituality on AOL and have fun.

Incidentally, there’s a LOT more that I felt like snipping…but I’m going to let it slide for now. However, let me say one more time: THIS SITE IS NOT MEANT TO BE A WITNESSING FORUM. We’ve had people witnessing and preaching on the old AOL forum, and we tried to keep those weeded out. This site is meant to aid in stomping out ignorance. If you’re not interested in learning new things, then this probably isn’t the site you should be involved in.

113

It sounds like you’ve got a pretty fine life there PL. Nice house, good job, adoring wife. But what will it all amount to when you die? It’s not going to do you a bit of good. When I said you’ve lost everything, I meant it. And when I say I feel sorry for you, I REALLY mean it.

You have no life PL. It was taken from you the minute you denounced God. Remember this: To live, is Christ.

  To be honest PL, when I look at you, I see a dead man walking.

Adam

114

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Show me something you can prove, kid, and maybe I’ll hear more than the pathetic, repetitive bleating of some brainwashed dingus who couldn’t think his way out of an open closet. “Dead man walking” . . .gimme a fucking break, Sister Prejean.

115

PL:

Hmmm…not to side with Arg or anything, but I gotta tell ya… you might want to reflect a little further on the things that make your life so great.

  • Good thing. Did you enjoy it? Did it enrich your life? Did it instill in you a lust and an appreciation for learning? Or was it simply step one to:
  • Well, ok. What’s great about it? Do you love what you do? Do you get a great sense of accomplihment? Are you proud of your work? Or is it just:

The Money?

Well, that is certianly something to be happy about. A healthy, long lasting, committed love is right at the top of most people’s list and it is not something everyone gets.

Hmm… seems we’re kinda back on the money track here, and what money buys.

And the structure of this sentence seems to imply that everything you want can be bought, since the one thing you haven’t bought yet is freedom from your debts.

Because…? You have a good job that pays you enough money to buy all the “stuff” you desire? (And a great relationship)

Whatever floats your boat, certainly, but when you get to the end of your life, after you’ve reflected upon your wonderful marriage, will the rest of it be:

“And we had lots of money and owned alot of stuff?”

Just suggesting a re-think…or maybe just a re-phrase.

Stoidela

Boycott shampoo! Demand REAL poo!

116

Stoi, who are you to crap on what Dennis finds pleasurable about his life? The guy sounds like he is happy. I didn’t arrive at the conclusion that he was somehow overly materialistic. Sounds like he is thankful for the things in his life that give him comfort and happiness. It is naive to think that money doesn’t afford comfort. It does, just a nasty fact of life in the good old US of A. The point I believe he was making is that his lack of believe in ARG’s view of God hasn’t hurt him. He is leading a rewarding and fulfilled life on his own terms. You seem to be suggesting that his happiness is a diaphanous dream based on money. You could be correct but his post didn’t imply that. If you are concerned about his immortal soul then just come out and say so…

117

Oh, fer. . .OK, Stoi, one by one:

I already had those, Stoi. The fact that I completed college was a personal achievement, as I was the first in my immediate family to do so (neither my parents or my sister did), and I did so by paying my own way and despite enormous personal difficulties and taking 8 years to do so.

Are you, like, retarded? What does “great job” mean to you?

Yep. I like money. It, like, beats not having any, you know? I’ve gone through not having any, and while I survived, I found it distasteful. And being paid well for what I do, then receiving a big bonus on top of it, lets me know I am valuable to both my office and the company at large.

Nice try, but a) I don’t own my house, I rent it, and b) if you could see some the neighborhoods I’ve lived in, you’d understand my appreciation.

You do have a learning disability, don’t you? Admit it, come on. I imply no such thing, and the fact that you infer it is your problem, not mine. I incurred some $20,000 in student loan debt finishing college, and I’d like to pay it off. Kind of simple, really. Aside from that, I want for nothing, financially or otherwise.

What, precisely, is your problem with the fact that I’m happy? Does it bother you somehow? Do I need to provide an elaborate list of reasons? Or are you too dense to understand that I was providing counterpoint to Adam’s assertion that only those who sign away 10% of their paycheck to a church receive financial security?

Uh, at least I have one, thanks.

Thanks, but I understood perfectly well what I meant, and I’m sure all the other nonretarded readers did, too.

118

Oh, and Adam? I know it gives you comfort or boosts your ego or whatever to believe that the fact that you read some really old book gives you special insight into the lives of complete strangers, but you’re fooling yourself. No matter how special or superior it makes you feel, it’s an illusion. You wouldn’t know me or anyone else from the MB if you walked into us on the street, and certainly would have no insight into anything about us, so anything you think you know or see is a lie.

BTW, I have this book about a man with incredible powers. He can fly, and see through solid objects, and melt things with his eyes. It’s called “Superman.” And every word in it is absolutely true. I know it is, because I believe it is.

119

Ducks:

I wasn’t “crapping” on anything, I was pointing out the way it came off. To me, obviously, since I have no way to know how it came off to others.

PL:

Yep, that would be it, I am retarded. Sheesh.

As it happens, with your further clarification, you and I are in similar circumstances, it seems. It just appeared to me that you were leaving out what I consider to be the most rewarding things in life. Friends, family, laughter, learning.

And what I consider a great job is all that I described. the only details you gave about the greatness of your job was the money you are making.

Stoidela

Boycott shampoo! Demand REAL poo!

120

Pl says:

[quote]
Oh, and Adam? I know it gives you comfort or boosts your ego or whatever
to believe that the fact that you read some really old book gives you
special insight into the lives of complete strangers, but you’re fooling
yourself. No matter how special or superior it makes you feel, it’s an
illusion. You wouldn’t know me or anyone else from the MB if you walked
into us on the street, and certainly would have no insight into anything
about us, so anything you think you know or see is a lie.

[quote]

Actually, my Bible is pretty new. I just got in last November. :wink:

Pl, you've told me a tiny bit about yourself. You said you and your wife were born again Spirit filled Christians. And now it's clear that you're no longer serving God. Whatever "insight" I've had into your life is pretty obvious.

You also said,

[quote]
Show me something you can prove, kid

[quote]

Well PL, like I've said before, you are totally lacking faith. Can you prove to me that you love your wife? Can you prove to me that you're happy? You're an extremely intelligent man PL. Surely you understand that just because you can't prove something, doesn't mean it's imagined, or fake.

Adam