Hey, ARG220! Over here!

The BBQ Pit
1

ARG220, in the Maybe hell’s cool thread, you wrote:

Let’s not. They have their beliefs and you have yours. Who are you to decide that their beliefs are wrong? What makes your interpretation of the bible the one-and-only “true” one? Did you miss the page in the Bible which tells you: “Judge not, lest ye be judged?”

Since you’re throwing rocks at other religions, I’ll hold up a target for you. I’m a practicing Pagan-- altar, candles, sacred dagger, the whole bit. Tell me exactly why you think I’ll end up in your hell. I’m interested to hear it-- I haven’t had a good laugh in days.

2

Does only ARG get to post here?

I am a little confused about something… doesn’t it seem logical that if someone is deeply religious, no matter WHAT their religion, that it follows that they must believe that their religion is the only “true” one? Because if they dont’ believe that, why would they embrace their religion in the first place? So ragging people for believing their religions are true seems to be something of a wasted exercise.

Speaking of religions, I heard a horrifying (yet not entirely surprising quote) from a Muslim woman last night on “The People’s Century” on PBS (Great series, btw). She said something to the effect of: “The prophet tells us that if you see something is wrong, you must FIRST (my emphasis) try to destory it by force. Then, if that doesn’t work, you must speak out against it.”

Wow…shoot first and ask questions later, directly from the Prophet. Scary, Debbie.

Stoidela

Boycott shampoo! Demand REAL poo!

3

I’ve been following the whole ARG v. Heathens case for awhile now.
I don’t even know why anyone bothers trying to engage him in any dialogue whatsoever. Even a Furby™ changes its tune once in a while.

4

Stoidela asked:

No, not every religious person believes that, though many do. Unitarians, for example, believe in freedom of conscience. We (yes, I’m one) believe in a person’s ability to discover truth for him/herself. That means your religion isn’t necessarily wrong. You may just see it differently than I do. There are Christians, Pagans, Jews, and even atheists who are Unitarians. And all are religious and devout.

The purpose of religion isn’t to be the winners of some pep rally. And, contrary to much of human history, it isn’t to kill everyone who disagrees with you either. Religion is here to celebrate our spiritual nature, to find others whom we can relate to spiritually, and to find purpose in our lives.

Wanna know more about Unitarianism? Click here.

Awaiting ARG220’s scorn,
Your Quadell

5

Hey AuraSeer, catch me online some evening to chat, would you? I’m very interested in your perspective – have distinct pagan leanings myself (not surprising for an Irish Catholic ;)), and would love to talk.

-Melin

 Phenomenal woman
 Bitch Corporate Lawyer
 That's me
6

I dunno. I got bored and wandered away.

Despite how I may have come across, I really don’t give a rat’s ass what anyone else believes. I can only judge a person based on actions and statements, “beliefs” are invisible to me. Prideful ignorance and intolerance sometimes get a rise out of me, if I’m in the mood.

Oh well, Faire season is almost here. The Girls have made me promise to not wear the kilt this year. I love embarassing my offspring…

Must be a free-association night…

7

Earlier today, I typed out a long and beautiful post that took me over an hour to finish. Then when I went to push the “Submit Reply” button, the computer crashed! Needless to say, I was quite upset. Come to think of it, I don’t know why I’m telling you any of this. I hate this computer. Anyway.

Auraseer: It's not lighting candles, and doing pagan rituals that sends you to hell. Or at least, it's not those things specifically.

All humans sin. And all humans are NOT basically good. All of us are basically BAD. (Including me) What saves us all from the flames of hell is the undying grace of Jesus Christ. HE is our sacrifice, and payment for sin.

There are not specific "damning sins." Sin is sin, is sin. Whether it's murder, or telling a "little white lie." Now, all people who go to hell, go there because of one thing: The presence of sin in their lives.

But since all of us sin, how are we supposed to get to heaven? You guessed it. The answer is Jesus. No matter what you've done, no matter who you are, or where you came from, He COVERS your sin, if you allow Him to. Because when it comes time for Christians to be judged by God, He sees the blood of Jesus over our lives, and the sin is hidden. That is how we can enter the kingdom of heaven. By the power of the blood of Jesus.

 Did you laugh at that Auraseer? I kind of doubt it. And if Snarkberry is reading this, then maybe we'll have our Mormons discussion some other time. That's basically another thread in the making anyway, right?

 Oh, BTW, I have never considered this as "Arg v. Heathens." I am not against any of you. I just want to help the lost become found, and allow the blind to see. (With God's help of course) ;)

Adam

8

Arg:

What was the point of God setting it up like that? Why did he create the tree of knowledge for Adam and Eve to be tempted by in the first place? Core reason, please.

Because if you examine it, it reveals a jealous, egotistical, narcissistic god. A mindfucker, to be brutally plain. If he were the all-loving sweetie-pie you seem to think he is, he wouldn’t have set it up like that in the first place.

Oh, and what about all the folks that came between Adam and Eve and Jesus? Since they didn’t have the blood of Jesus to hide their sins, were they just condemned at birth? Now THAT’s a loving diety!

And finally…why torment Jesus? Why did Jesus have to suffer so much in order to redeem us? Why couldn’t he have been our redeemer without the torment and suffering?

Hmmm?

Stoidela

Boycott shampoo! Demand REAL poo!

9

Perhaps that all-mighty God of yours who’s everywhere and sees everything is trying to tell you something; say, for example, “SHADDUP ALREADY!”
I knew you wouldn’t see it as Arg v. Heathens. That’s part of what I meant when I said it.

10

ARG220 wrote:

Don’t count on it, Adam. Life’s too short to spend my time arguing with a brick wall. You believe what you wish about Mormons, mkay? I’m done with you. :smiley:

11

Gee, that was rude of me. I’m sorry, Adam. I’ve had a bad couple of days and here I go taking it out on you. Sorry.

12

::sniffles:: Our baby is growing up.

Hell, Snark, I was about to applaud till you came back with the apology. This is the PIT, fer cryin out loud, son.

13

Bill, Bill, Bill, . . .
This is the Barbecue Pit. A simple statement of fact is never to a reason to apologize. (And unless you truly enjoy arguing with a brick wall who worships a monster (as several people on these threads obviously do), your choice of having no more discussions with Adam is the correct one.)

Tom~

14

I don’t intend to argue religion any more with Adam, but I don’t want to give offense either.

To Adam: if you are truly interested in learning (not arguing) about the LDS religion, the missionaries are in the phone book, and I already gave you the official web site. If you want to argue, you’ll have to do it with someone other than me. In spite of this being the BBQ Pit, I wish you well.

15 
 I don't know why God created that tree Stoid. Why did He create birds, and trees, and little fishies? Maybe because they look pretty, I'm not exactly sure. That's not really the point. Satan tempted Eve, while assuming the form of a serpent. (Come now, I'm sure you've heard about this.) Adam didn't have to sin. God didn't "set it up" that way. But since he did, he pretty much made life very difficult for the rest of us. By disobeying God, Adam and Eve brought sin into a sinless world. Thus the world began as we know it. Where man is sinful, and we need some form of atonement for our sins. (i.e. sacrificial animals for the Old Testement, and Jesus for everybody who came after Him.)

The Israelites in the OT needed some form of atonement for their sins. And for that they used animals, usually a sheep. (I think) The blood of those innocent animals covered their sins. This is why Jesus is commonly reffered to as, "The Lamb of God." Because He was like an innocent lamb being led to sacrifice for us.

Jesus Himself actually struggled with this too Stoidela. When He was praying to God just before His arrest, Jesus asked God if there was another way around His crucifixion. Jesus didn’t want to suffer anymore than you or I would have wanted to. But above all, He knew that He was destined to die for our sins.

But why did He have to suffer, you ask? "But He was pierced for our trangressions; He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed." Isaiah 53:5

Hopefully I have answered all your questions Stoidela. Could you do me a favor though? I know you don't believe in God like I do, but could you show respect and not use the "F" word when reffering to Him?

And Bill: (Snarkberry)
   If you don't want to talk about LDS, then that's cool by me. And I appreciate your apology. Unlike some people on this board, you have shown that you have a good heart, even though we don't see eye to eye. :)

Adam

16

ARG220 wrote:

Was it Spock who did a little too much “LDS” in college?

Seriously, the reason I don’t want to talk about the LDS church with you is, you have repeatedly bashed, slammed and misrepresented it, and this out of complete and total ignorance of what it’s all about. You have called it a “false religion,” “rediculous [sic],” a “cult,” and other choice words. You have called me “confused” and other Mormons “confused and deceived”. When I have explained to you that Mormonism is not any of those things, you have repeatedly acted like the proverbial “brick wall,” unteachable and stubbornly arrogant in your belief that yours is the only true religion. The nicest thing you ever said about Mormonism is that its web site is “interesting.” So do you blame me for not wanting to talk to you about it? Your mind is closed.

To quote someone familiar to this board, “You’re impossible! Just impossible!”

I won’t debate you further on this subject.

17

Well Bill, if you give enough time, I could show you why I said all those things about Mormons. All I’d have to do is read a little more from that website, or go to my Christian book retailer and buy a book about cults, and I’d have no problem showing you why Mormons are a deceived people.

But I’m not going to force you to talk about anything. And since you THINK I’m a “brick wall,” then I guess we’re through on this subject, eh? Just do me a favor. If you’re not going to discuss it with me, then study the Bible more, and then compare it to the Book of Mormon, and the teachings of John Smith. Or go to your local Christian book store (cause you said Mormons are Christian, right?) and pick up a copy of a book that compares Mormonism to the teachings of the Bible. I garantee if you do that, then your eyes will be opened wider to the things of God.

Seek the truth Bill, and you will find it.

Adam

18

Arg:

No, you didn’t answer my questions at all. You repeated information I already had. That we all have, because the story of Christ permeates our culture.

In questioning you, I am asking YOU to question. You repeat endlessly that God is loving. You go on and on about how wonderful and great he is, and you also insist that you DO think, that you are NOT mindlessly following stuff that has been thrown at you. Yet you don’t stop to question: “If God loves us so, why did he create the Tree of knowledge, put it right in front of Adam and say ‘don’t eat’? What was he trying to prove? What was the point? Why did he want to tempt and test Adam and Eve right out the gate? WHAT KIND OF GAME WAS HE PLAYING?” Instead you come back with the incredibly lame and irrelevant “Why did he make birds? Because they’re pretty.” Talk about checking out on stuff you don’t want to hear!

If the entity in question in this scenario was a human being, you would think they were a jerk. Or if you didn’t think they were a jerk, you would certianly question WHY they were doing what they were doing, wnd whether it was appropriate or necessary, and what the situation said about the person in question and thier personality.

IMagine it as a father. Father has something he KNOWS will be bad news for his child, and also irresistably interesting. For the sake of argument, let’s say it’s a loaded gun. So he takes a big fat Magnum 357, all shiny and new, and places it right in the middle of the child’s playroom. He says to the child: “Everythign in this room is yours to play with. Except this gun. It’s bad, it will cause you to die. It’s terrible. That is the one thing you can’t touch.” Then he leaves.

Wouldn’t you consider that a sick mindgame on the part of the father? Would you consider that a loving, wise, thoughtful thing to do? Would you consider it necessary? Would you BLAME the child that picked up the gun?

Because that’s the equivalent tale, and it SUCKS. So for my money, the whole story begins badly, with God demonstrating what a crummy example of wisdom, love or compassion he is and I reject it from there. I have no respect for him as he is portrayed in the Bible, and I cannot fathom why anyone would.

Stoidela

Boycott shampoo! Demand REAL poo!

19

Here, Stoidela, is a link to help explain the whole Adam and Eve story. It’s the sixth chapter of an online guide called “Gospel Principles.” It’s simplified, but it does help explain things.
The Fall of Adam and Eve

It explains that “Adam fell that men might be, and men are, that they might have joy.” Without the fall of Adam and Eve, they would have remained in the Garden of Eden, forever childless, and not knowing good from evil. Read the link for more details. :slight_smile:

20

Stoidela,
A lot of people believe in YHWH. They like Him. A lot. And their beliefs aren’t hurting you. I understand why you don’t like Him. I can think of few dieties mankind has ever worshiped that were as capriciously violent. But purposefully trying to poke holes in someone’s belief system is both pointless and rude. It rarely convinces anyone, and it’s always an offense to the person.

Arg,
Why do you care what Stoidela and others believe? And please, don’t try to say it’s out of love and concern for their souls. I know the difference between sincere concern for someone, and religious fanaticism that just wants to be right. You don’t fool me for a minute. I mean, your posting on the Internet, in the Pit for cryin’ out loud. That’s not because you care. If you love YHWH so much, get off the Internet, and pick up your bible. Or pray for people. You’ll make a lot fewer enemies.

Your Quadell