As a Latter Day Saint who strayed, wandered back as an adult when they got my wife and then finally ran screaming from the temple with her in tow, I could understand ME getting crazy on Mormons. Nevertheless I do not. Kind of a “live and let live” thing, same as keeps me off the Catholics. And in general anyone who believes in something which cannot be proven–however conveniently. Hell, I even give Republicans a break. Personally? I don’t think God–if there is one or a few–is accurately understood by a large number of people on Earth today, so I’d call myself a non-believer and yeah, I smile at folks who say they know something.
But I’m curious where you got off with that particular thread? You been drinkin? All kinds of people believe in This God Person, in a variety of avatars. None of them can provide physical evidence that what they believe is true–you can’t “cite” them. And you can’t call 'em nuts just because their story doesn’t allow for proof to back it up–God asn’t allowed His followers proof of His existence for AGES.
It’s pretty clear the thread belonged in GD, but beyond that, I don’t see what was especially pitworthy about Brainglutton’s comments. John Smith strikes me as a giant fraud as well, and I’m not afraid to say it. Just because millions of people disagree doesn’t make him less of a fraud.
Doesn’t mean I can’t live and let live either. Mormon’s are entitled to their delusion, but they should be used to people calling it what it is by now.
Yeah, maybe. And that’s why I’ve only the rage of like, “6 easy bake ovens” here, but I didn’t know where else to bring it up. I could let it go had it been any of 3 dozen other posters, but my impression of BG isn’t that of some dickhead who wanders around looking for an unwinnable/unlosable fight.
As I said, I bailed on that God a while ago so I have no dog in this fight, but I can’t imagine why he’d go after a group, however “deluded,” that in the main is a kind and clean-living bunch without a tremendous history (although there certainly is a bit) of “persecution of the infidel in the name of God.” He’s got Catholics and Muslims if he wants to get in the ring on that score.
Either my impression was all wrong or the guy’s got a brain tumor and needs to get it checked out. Or maybe he was beset by a pair of unusually obnoxious Elders and was just pissed off about it…but then why wouldn’t he amuse us in The Pit rather than go sounding for the Mormorati?
I’m not arguing with you at all Inigo, Brainglutton was out of line with his consonant joke. However, I’ve always thought that there was a good reason to want to examine the physical proofs of Mormonism. That reason being these potential objects are not really that old in the great scheme of things. I own chairs that have been around longer than the Mormon faith. The academic world has always pursued religious artifacts with great interest. I don’t see why these should be any different than looking for an arc of the covenant.
I think when you’ve got a guy telling people that a member of one of the lost tribes of Israel (Lehi was it?) and his family emigrated to the Americas, and that the Native Americans are actually Jews (of the “Lamanite” branch…heh heh), it’s probably a pretty safe bet that the miraculous Gold Plates (which were trascribed behind a curtain, if I recall the story correctly, such that no one else could see the esteemed Mr. Smith at work), purportedly spirited away to Heaven whence they came, never actually existed. At best, if some facsimile of the supposed holy artifact encoding the Book of Mormon was ever extant, it’s highly likely it was a product not only of Mr. Smith’s (deranged?) imagination, but his hands as well.
I’m sorry: Some myths date back millenia. I can forgive some people of faith for being indoctrinated from birth in a pervasive religious atomosphere that strongly reinforces belief in certain notions that have the authority of antiquity. But the Latter Day Saints got their start in the early 19th century, and the claims of the faith just don’t have the weight of tradition that could shield them from literalism and allow them to pass as allegory. The proximity of the origins of the Mormon faith in time to the modern age, as well as some of the more outlandish claims about the history of the Americas, make the entire enterprise appear patently absurd and utterly bereft of even the trappings of age-earned legitimacy, from this skeptics point of view. Even in its founding days, this nonsense about the “Lamanites” ought to have raised the deepest historical misgivings in any sensible bystander to the actions of Joseph Smith; the fact some went along with his delusion to the point they set out over the Rockies for the “Promised Land” strains credibility. If BrainGlutton feels the need to question the judgement of devout Mormons, I must agree with him that, among they faithful, theirs is an exceptionally untenable case, which is saying much.
We’re talking about a time period when people believed that skull measurements “proved” that black people were a different species. They had barely figured out the world wasn’t flat. I don’t think they even had the SDMB back then.
Wholeheartedly agreed. And if I were pitting the LDS for being a bunch of nutjobs and followers of nutjobs (which is a pretty sound fight, but not one I’m interested in picking) I’d get with you on it.
But my quarel, if you can cal it that, is why **BG **chose to bait the Mormons with an illegal GQ thread when he could have gotten more and better results with a tandem post: GQ to establish evidence of the tabl;es’ existence and then a GD, IMHO or Pit thread to set that fuel alight. Sure it’s a matter of style, but an unnecessary blunder that got him whacked.
I’m just curious about HIS thought process (because I think he has one.)
Of course every religion (well, except maybe for Buddhism) is based on assumptions just as incredible as those of Mormonism. I just thought I saw something different in Mormonism – something which at least purported to be hard proof, and which could help explain how Joe Smith was able to sell it to his first converts.
