And yes, thank you OP, people were getting a bit too intense elsewhere.
Now, I did say this was not completely about the Israel/Palestine issue but of course that too is a factor. On that I’ll just make an observation about the tone of the debate.
I am not going to question that for some of us here, a failure for a would-be US Senator to be absolutely categorical about Israel’s legitimacy and continued survival as a nation-state, or to condemn ANY expression against that, creates a concern that is existential . That is something real and I feel I cannot just dismiss it even if to me it doesn’t look as dire.
At the same time, the survey found real unease within the party. More than a third of Jewish Democrats said the rise of anti-Israel candidates had made it harder for them personally to identify as Democrats. A majority of Jewish voters said antisemitism was increasing within the Democratic Party, and a similar share said it was increasing within the Republican Party.
I don’t know what to think, man. It’s hard to separate legitimate criticisms of El-Sayed from the nasty Islamophobia present in Mike Rogers’ campaign. I don’t like that El-Sayed is weasely about Piker because I really don’t like Piker. I don’t know how to evaluate that he failed to make friends with certain Jewish organizations. I don’t know how to assess the reasonableness of their demands. I don’t know their political leanings. I don’t know how representative they are of what Jews are feeling in general.
El-Sayed strikes me as competent but a bit of an ass. I’m not really sure what to expect. But he’s focused on health care and my household medical bills are about $30k a year so this is a relevant issue to me.
Haley can go fuck herself, though. I’ve always thought if a Democrat does something you don’t like, you hold their feet to the fire - even abstain if you have to - but don’t abandon your principles. For example, if El-Sayed becomes my Senator you can bet your sweet ass he’s going to hear from me. If he’s fucking it up, Michiganders can pressure him to do better.
But to vote for Mike fucking Rogers is beyond the pale.
And to turn as fast as she did suggests, to me, some mental instability.
“As a group of angry white men who have been accused of being racist, we talked to ourselves and decided we are so morally pure and morally superior that its impossible for us to be racist. We just hate the inner city and everything the inner city stands for”
Thats what they sound like to people who aren’t in their group.
Haley Stevens sold her soul to Satan and the check bounced. Rogers will lose, she’ll never be able to run for office again. It’s not often you see a rat jump aboard a sinking ship, but we saw it Sunday.
I expect that many of them will come around when they see that their fears are not realized. El-Sayed will be fine in the Senate. Plus, over time, ore mainstream Jewish Americans will probably sour on Isreal to some extent. Perhaps be less worked up over legitimate criticisms.
Well, they probably feel that way because it is. Some Democrats seem to have developed a fanatical devotion to the Palestine conflict that makes them very willing to imply or even outright state anti-Semitic things. Leftists are subjecting Jews to a kind of purity test about whether or not they are Zionists. Therapists are using “decolonization” therapy to shame Jews seeking mental health treatment - and that comes from a progressive ideology. I don’t think it’s any of my business who is a Zionist. And Zionist these days could mean a hundred different things. So it’s meaningless.
If El-Sayed was a Democratic socialist I probably would have abstained on the suspicion of anti-Semitism alone. But he said pretty clearly he is a capitalist.
(I also think Democratic socialists are nuts for other reasons. So it wouldn’t be a single issue.)
Our fear isn’t that he will pass the “Gas all Jews” act or lead the Senate in authorizing use of military force against Israel.
Our fear is that he will continue to do what he has already done with comments like “hurt people hurt people” - he will continue to normalize and legitimize antisemitism, intentionally or not, and he will do it from a bigger platform.
Honestly, the way that people are pretending that this comment isn’t incredibly toxic and insidious make me feel incredibly gaslit. There is no other way to describe it.
Like, these are often the same people telling me that Gavin Newsom is so anti-LGBT that he would make a terrible president.
If Newsom’s response to the Pulse Nightclub Shooting was “hurt people hurt people” and he spent five minutes of a speech explaining that the shooter was incredibly upset over US airstrikes in Iraq and Syria and specifically over the “murder” of Abu Waheeb, and asked us to imagine a world where the United States wasn’t engaged in airstrikes in Syria - in that world, Omar Mateen wouldn’t have felt so hurt and the Pulse victims would still be alive - then yeah, I’d agree with you that Newsom sounds incredibly homophobic to me.
All of that is true, by the way. Omar Mateen’s motivation for the Pulse Nightclub shooting was nearly identical to the motivation of the synagogue shooter. But you sure as shit don’t see anyone rushing to explain his motivation as “hurt people hurt people”. And if anyone did, we would all agree that they’re homophobic as fuck.
Because we have a high Jewish population and a high Middle Eastern population it’s inevitable that our politics would get wound up in this conflict. I just wish the alternative to El-Sayed hadn’t been Haley fucking Stevens.
I have empathy for people on both sides of the debate. I saw vicious anti-Muslim sentiment after 9/11 including against people I counted as my friends. And that sentiment is still there. I was eating in a restaurant yesterday and saw an ad claiming El-Sayed was going to implement Sharia Law (I think voters see through this bullshit.)
But the anti-Semitism is just as real.
So the whole thing just fucking sucks.
I think that’s a legitimate and reasonable fear. If he is elected, El-Sayed is going to be hearing from me until he gets his shit together.
I don’t know why it’s so hard for him to equally support both communities. Or why he can’t, you know, read the fucking room. But I partly blame media coverage (or lack thereof) of October 7. Admittedly I was not reading NYT back then, so I’m not sure exactly how MSM covered it. All I really know is I think a lot of people glossed over the horror of those attacks. I didn’t get a greater understanding until long after it happened, and I’ve still avoided the worst details just because I don’t need to add to my list of Horrible Shit That Keeps Me Up at Night.
I don’t know if I am a Zionist but I at least find it understandable.
When I was in college in 2001, 9/11 happened during like the first or second week of starting classes. And we had a very diverse student body so there was no shortage of hot takes on what had just occurred. I ended up signing up for a class about the founding of Israel, but the other students had so much background knowledge and so many strong opinions I felt way out of my depth, so I dropped it. I now wish I had finished the class.
El-Sayed has openly affirmed his Muslim faith while maintaining that a candidate’s religion should have no bearing on their eligibility for public office under the U.S. Constitution. Having personally experienced discrimination because of his faith, he has emphasized that the struggles against Islamophobia, racism, and antisemitism are interconnected. He has repeatedly condemned antisemitism in all its forms, describing it as a “scourge” that has no place in our communities. At the same time, he has been a vocal critic of U.S. military aid to Israel, characterizing Israeli military operations in Gaza as genocide and arguing that American tax dollars would be better spent addressing domestic priorities, such as funding public schools. Sounds pretty even to me. What room do you think he isn’t reading?
If you haven’t read all the posts explaining what problems the Jewish community has with the statements he has made so far, then I guess you probably won’t read any future explanation either.
Do you mean because he’ll stop doing it once he’s elected?
How exactly does Stevens’ “my feelings are hurt so I’m supporting the Republican” translate into centrist vs. progressive?
Obvious Republicans are gleeful at any sign of division among Democrats, but it’s hard to see Democratic and independent voters giving much of a shit about this squabble.
But you aren’t concerned about Rogers winning after falsely accusing El-Sayed of being a jihadist who wants to implement Sharia law is going to continue to normalize and legitimize Islamophobia?