Since I’ve said multiple times that despite my concerns about El Sayed’s antisemitic tendencies I still hope he wins because the most important issue to me is making sure that the Jan 6 party doesn’t control the Senate, that seems a lot more like a product of your imagination than an actual position I hold.
He’s the Last Word on all things.
But Jewish voters are split regarding Israel right now.
My son went to a Jewish wedding recently. The music was provided by a woman touring with Macklemore’s “Free Palestine” tour. The Jews there were excited to be a “secret stop on the Free Palestine tour”.
Yeah, no shit. I’ve never seen more antisemitism in my life. There’s still more of it on the right than on the left, but it’s everywhere, and it’s growing everywhere.
The American Jews who insist on a “you must support Israel” purity test aren’t doing is any favors, either.
Some are saying that anything short of “Israel must cease to exist and be replaced by Palestine” is a Zionist…or heck, even arguing that the definition of “Zionist” is irrelevant in the face of genocide. This has always been one of the most confusing things about this whole situation: trying to figure out who the bigots are whose opinions I can safely ignore.
His comments on the Jewish synagogue shooting were a fantastic example of not reading the room, and he made some noises about reaching out to the Jewish community after he won the primary, but that whole effort seems to have mixed results at best.
I mean, I do give a shit, because it centers on an issue affecting my community. An issue that is probably going to be reflected in future political races.
I don’t know what the hell is wrong with her, but I thought she was an extremist on Israel which is why I didn’t vote for her in the primary. But regarding other policies she seemed pretty middle of the road to me.
I get that you don’t want the fascists to win, which is nice. But do you agree that one bad effect of El-Sayed losing would be that it would encourage other candidates to embrace Islamophobic attacks as a campaign tactic?
What did he say? I don’t live in Michigan and haven’t been following every detail of this election.
Saw a survey the other day…meaning to make a thread about this at some point…saying that 80% of self-identified anti-Zionist American Jews think Zionism is about supporting whatever Israel does, while only 15% of self-identified Zionist American Jews feel that way.
It’s just an essentially meaningless label at this point, probably best to just avoid being drawn into arguments about it.
Really? Do you get that? Because I’m pretty sure that you just implied that I supported Rogers. Why don’t we cut the bad faith bullshit?
Yes.
And one bad effect of El Sayed winning would be that it would encourage other candidates to disregard concerns raised by representatives of the Jewish community or even to embrace comments that at best appeal to antisemites and at worst are antisemitic.
I’m concerned about both of those things, and other issues besides. On the balance, it comes out to me favoring El Sayed to win, ideally by exactly one vote (though I’d rather he win by a lot than lose by one vote, of course).
I can read your posts perfectly well. I’m disgusted with your “But Haley Stevens makes some good points” routine, but I know you want El-Sayed to win. I don’t think I implied otherwise, but apologize if I did.
He spent four minutes explaining that the shooter was upset because he had relatives who died in Lebanon (he didn’t mention that those relatives were Hezbollah members) and then said that “hurt people hurt people” and asked us to imagine a world where Israel didn’t bomb his Hezbollah relatives and so he didn’t kill a bunch of Jews.
One thing that bothers me is how it’s drowning out reasonable dissenters. It’s kind of the trend right now to accuse anyone who calls out Anti-Semitism of essentially “crying bigotry” to avoid answering hard questions about Israel’s actions in Palestine. Do some people do that? Probably. But it’s become the default assumption in certain circles that if you are complaining about anti-Semitism you must be making excuses for Israel’s government. It poisons the well on every debate.
On the flip side, some people conflate criticism of the Israeli government with anti-Semitism.
So no matter what you think, you can’t have a constructive dialogue.
Thats fair and valid. Jews in the US and in Israel are divided on where they stand on what Israel is doing. Those people aren’t anti-semitic, they are having discussions on policy.
Part of the issue is that Israel has become a proxy for white western imperialism. So all the rage leftists feel for white western imperialism gets funneled into anti-Israel activism.
But that just ties into protean (shapeshifting) anti-semitism. Which basically states ‘whatever a society holds the most sacred and valuable, Jews are seen as opponents to it. Whatever society considers to be its highest evil, Jews are seen as behind it’.
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When Jesus and christianity was the greatest good, Jews were seen as christ killers.
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When the black plague happened, Jews were seen as poisoning the water supply.
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When capitalism is seen as the highest evil, Jews are seen as international bankers
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When communism is seen as the highest evil, Jews are seen as behind communism
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When maintaining a nation’s identity as a white christian nation is paramount, Jews are seen as being the ones pushing for mass immigration of brown people (this is a major factor in antisemitism among the modern right in the US). That chant ‘Jews will not replace us’ was a reference to the conspiracy theory that Jews are promoting mass immigration of POC into the US to dilute America’s culture.
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When white western imperialism is seen as the highest evil, Jews are seen as controlling the US government to help white european Jews displace brown natives from their homes (this is a major factor in antisemitism among the modern left in the US).
Whatever people consider the highest good or highest evil, people shift anti-semitism so the Jews are seen as being a threat to societies most sacred values, or behind societies greatest evils.
I’d never heard of Haley Stevens until I saw this thread and Googled. My reaction is that Haley is a despicable and bigoted brat, petulant that she lost her primary to a Muslim. She is happy to see the rule of criminals and morons continue rather than to push for Democracy. I am filled with disgust.
Party loyalty is often sacrosanct in American politics. Even top Republicans enlightened enough to hate Trump don’t vote for Democrats. They give the GOP, in effect, half a vote by leaving their ballot blank, or writing in some idol (e.g. Sean Hannity?) GWB for example has deprecated this kakistocracy, but has he ever actually endorsed a Democrat?
Yet here is a “Democrat” who endorses a Republican. I want to puke.
I wonder if America adds some stupidity-inducing drug to their drinking water. Object to Bibi’s war crimes – approaching outright genocide – and you’ll get lumped with Hitler as a Jew hater. Seriously, USA: WTF is wrong with you? Get your drinking water tested.
Observers projecting their map of what Centrists and Progressives MUST be for or against. So you MUST be an Establishment Centrist if you have AIPAC as a donor, and of course that means your opponent MUST be a Progressive.
Even if the actual Establishment Centrists are all on his side.
Sorry, it’s not clear to me - are you saying Stevens is not a centrist? Left of center? Right of center?
I’m not sure what you’re seeing as wrong in the Centrist vs. progressive framing.
As I said elsewhere, because I do not believe THIS particular situation is solely or even mainly a centrist/progressive issue except insofar as Stevens believed that as the Establishment representative she was entitled to the candidacy.
Are people claiming this is a centrist vs progressive issue?
Your first paragraph, i agree with. The 2nd, I don’t. There have been multiple examples of republicans crossing party lines with endorsements. When your party has been co-opted by MAGA, doing the right thing pretty much requires you to do so. Former republican governors, congress members and state officials have backed democratic candidates in multiple states because they are finally putting country over party. The flip side of that is that there will be some democrats who show their true colors and do the opposite. So be it.
Um, thread title?