Is this debatable?

“Trent lott has said publicly what many republicans have been saying for years in private”

-Hillary Clinton, Fox News

Could we see an actual link?

Regardless, it is debatable on many levels.

I don’t know if I’m totally correct on this, but didn’t Hillary say some sort of racial remarks herself? So if this is true, then isn’t this the pot calling the kettle black?

Looks like plain political points-scoring to me. While I’m sure there are Republicans with beliefs they keep fairly quiet, I’m just as sure there are Democrats with equally embarrassing (from a political viewpoint) opinions.

It has been claimed that 26 years ago Hillary was overheard calling someone a ‘Fucking Jew Bastard’. The charge is levelled against her in a biography called, “State of a Union: Inside the Complex Marriage of Bill and Hillary Clinton”. He quotes two named eyewitnesses who agree that that is what she said.

Frankly, this one doesn’t pass the smell test. Relatively unsubstantiated claims of single sentences uttered 26 years ago do not constitute evidence of much, IMO. And even if she said it, we have no idea of the context in which it was uttered.

Adding a little credence is that the article also goes on to say that Hillary’s grandmother married a Jewish businessman, and Hillary’s mother hated him and constantly used anti-Jewish slurs against him. Again, I can’t find any confirmation of this, and would be inclined to consider it hearsay and not reasonable evidence of anything. Besides, even if her mother was a raging anti-semite, that doesn’t mean Hillary is.

More recently, she was criticised for supporting a Palestinian State (that is, before everyone did), and for hugging Yassir Arafat’s wife. I don’t think that is proof of anything.

Since being elected, Hillary’s support for the Jewish population of New York has been exemplary, as has been her support of Israel.

Anti-semitism is fashionable among a certain subset of the left. Hillary may have flirted with it a bit. But if she’s a real anti-semite, she’s certainly willing to put it aside when it comes to acting as a senator.

“So if this is true, then isn’t this the pot calling the kettle black?”

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts then would we all have a merry Christmas? I believe so.

Please note:

“Trent lott has said publicly what many republicans have been saying for years in private” does not DENY that others–Demos, liberals, HRC herself–may have expressed such sentiments.

It AFFIRMS that “many” Republicans are part of the set cited.

“Many” does not mean “most” or even “lots.” It means only something like “more than just a few.”

It is not credible that the party that has consciously and openly taken the part of the so-called “angry Southern white man,” and has drawn its candidates from their ranks, would have noteworthy sympathy for segregationist privilege? And would allude to same now and then?

I think the implication is not that Republicans tend to be racist, but that racists tend to Republicans. I’ve heard plenty of conservatives go off into racist rants in private (and usually after a few drinks). I’m talking about family and friends in Louisiana (where I was born) as well as rural, anti-government miltia types in Nort Dakota (where my wife is from). Most of these people are registered Republicans, all of them vote Republican, and I don’t the the GOP has gone out of its way to discourage this element of their party. Bush (to his credit) has actually showed some signs that he would like to rid the GOP of its historical, tacit
acceptance, or at least not outright rejection of white racist supporters. Whether Bush is motivated by a sincere desire desire for racial equality, or simple political pragmatism, I don’t know. W. doesn’t actually strike me as a racist (BJU flap aside) but he’s not much of a social activist either. I suspect that the ones who really have the power (Rove, Cheney) have simply realized that they are now seeing diminishing returns in not turning away the KKK faction of the party.

To get back to the OP, no, I don’t think it’s debatable that a lot of racists are Republicans, but I don’t think most Republicans are racist.

Diogenes: << I think the implication is not that Republicans tend to be racist, but that racists tend to Republicans. >>

I’m with Diogenese on this one. The racists tend to flock to the “no government intervention in any thing” where they find affinity in the ultra-right wing of the Republican party.

This is not to say one can’t find racist liberals, nor that the ultra-left wing of the Democratic party isn’t equally nutso, but just to say that there is a whole huge mind-set of good-ole-southern-boys who tend to be extreme right-wing and thus have more in common with the Republican than the Democratic party.

Historically, of course, it’s very interesting, because all those chaps tended to be Democrats from 1860 through about 1960, on the grounds that the arch-satan Lincoln was a Republican. It wasn’t until the Goldwater/Johnson election (IIRC) that most of them figured out that they had been associating with the wrong party for ever so long a time.

There seems to be far more anti-semitism on the left, however. Look at the rhetoric that comes from the likes of Jesse Jackson or Louis Farrakhan. Look at all the anti-Israel demonstrations on campuses, and the rise of anti-semitism in Europe, even from left-wing governments.

And of course, there are people like Maxine Waters and Cynthia McKinney who seem to be both anti-semitic AND racist against whites.

And let’s not forget former Klansman Robert Byrd.

Racism is not political. You can find it in all parties. At least the Republicans are confronting theirs. Democrats seem willing to give racists in their midst a pass.

Farrakhan has no association with the Democrat party, and I could argue that he’s not even a liberal.

It is true that Jesse Jackson made a “Hymietown” remark twenty years ago.

What “anti-Israel” demonstrations are you referring to? Pro-Palestinian does not equal anti-Israel, and anti- Israel does not equal anti-semitic.

How is the Democrat party responsible for ant-semitism in Europe?

Cites please. What have either Waters or McKinney said which is either anti-semitic or racist against whites?

I agree that Byrd is an embarrassment to the party.

So you really have one ex-klansman and a guy who once said "hymietown. (Jesse Jackson was not then, and is not now an elected official, however)

I didn’t say “The Democratic Party”. I said “The Left”.

I’ll be back after supper and I’ll go looking for some cites.

And I see you conveniently ignored Cynthia McKinney and Maxine Waters, both of whom ARE Democrats. McKinney in particular said some pretty rabid anti-Jewish things after her election defeat.

Well the OP was about the Republican party, not the “right,” so it’s not really analogous to drag in any all left-wing racism that you can find. We were talking about a party here, not an all-encompassing political hemisphere.

I didn’t ignore them, I asked you for cites.

Look at all the anti-Israel demonstrations on campuses, and the rise of anti-semitism in Europe, even from left-wing governments.

  1. As said before antisemtism and criticism of Israel are not the same thing.

  2. Which rise of antisemtism in Europe is this? I have to assume that you simply mean rise in opposition to the Israeli policy in Palestine when you are referring to the left. The truth is in a country like the UK antisemtism is almost neglible (for example the cheif Rabbi Jonathan Sacks has said that he has never personally experinced antisemitism which is a sentienment echoed by other UK Jews I have talked to). In Eastern Germany and Austria there have been new neo-nazi groups but none can truly claim widespread support (Jorg Heider excepted but most of his support came from people holding anti-immigration views rather than anti-semtic ones). In fact the far-right parties in places like the Netherlands and the UK have vocally supported Israel.

As for cites… Let’s see. First of all, McKinney came out after Sept. 11 and claimed that George Bush knew that the attacks were coming, but allowed them because it would benefit his ‘rich friends’.

Then she wrote this letter to Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, after Guliani told him to stuff his 10 million. In the letter she does a lot of criticising of Israel and the United States, but doesn’t even mention Bin Laden or al-Qaida.

McKinney invited Louis Farrakhan to campaign for her, and he’s a virulent anti-semite. Why is it that a Democrat can invite a man like Farrakhan to represent her and no one says a word, but if a Republican gives a speech at Bob Jones University it’s news for a couple of years?

This is what McKinney’s father said about her defeat (he is also an elected Democrat). He was asked why people didn’t endorse his daughter:

Here’s an interesting article on Black Anti-Semitism by Larry Elder. From the article:

I must say, researching McKinney’s comments was distasteful, because I had to wade through all kinds of nasty anti-semitic web sites defending her and blaming her defeat on ‘Zionist Money’. So it looks like there are a number of supporters of hers who are heavily anti-semitic.

McKinney, Sharpton, Farrakhan, and to a lesser extent Jesse Jackson and others are a blight on the left. Why isn’t the Democratic party denouncing them?

So the “left” are anti-semitic, but the “right” are equal-opportunity haters, this is what we have established, no?

**Sam[/], you still haven’t actually cited anything which McKinney has said herself which is anti-semitic. Not supporting Israel does not equate to anti-semitism. And you disn’t mention Maxine Waters at all.

There is an entire culture of entrenched white bigotry in the south, and the Republicans have always played right up to it. There is nothing comparable on the left.

Sam Stone:

So McKinney criticizes Israeli policy to the effect that there are reports of human rights abuses. Now, she doesn’t mention al Qaeda or bin Laden. Can you:
(1) provide the date of this letter, relative to what America and the world knew at the time about OBL’s involvement? This isn’t intended as particularly a loaded question, it’s just for information’s sake;
(2) tell me how criticizing Israel, but not bin Laden, is anti-Semitic? I mean, if I run around saying “I don’t think that Israel should have allowed new settlements in the West Bank since the Intifada began” but don’t say “Oh yeah! And Osama bin Laden is an asshole, too” am I being anti-Semitic? I realize this is just after Sept. 11th, but come on. Her letter had a specific thing to say, something apart from al Qaeda or Osama. She was saying, basically, “it sucks that Giuliani didn’t accept your money, and instead criticized you for your stance on Israel; but I’m closer to that position, so please don’t be totally alienated; indeed, it would be awesome if you chose to help out charitable organizations here directly.” If she didn’t criticize bin Laden, what does that have to do with anything?
(3) tell me how “rethinking our support for Israel” because of things like reports of “a pattern of excessive, and often indiscriminate, use of lethal force by Israeli security forces in situations where Palestinian demonstrators were unarmed and posed no threat of death or serious injury to the security forces or to others” is anti-Semitic? Isn’t that just criticism of actions taken by a government? America’s support for Israel should not prevent it from criticizing atrocities where atrocities have taken place; nor should America be lax on investigating claims, often widespread, of IDF human rights abuses.

I don’t have much to say about the other things you cite; I’m more interested in dispelling the notion that we can’t criticize Israeli policy without criticizing Jews. Human rights abuses are human rights abuses no matter who is committing them. I will agree that there are critics of Israel who base their criticism in often very violent anti-Semitism. These people are the sorts of cretins who both stink up a debate with their festering verbal diarrhea and do their cause no credit whatsoever. But the fact that someone criticizes Israeli policy is, by itself, no evidence of anti-Semitism any more than criticizing British foreign policy is evidence of Anglophobia.

And anyway, if the link is there, then hasn’t every opposition party in the Knesset been, by definition, anti-Semitic?