The links you posted don’t say that a sperm is a human. I asked for a cite that stated that sperm is a human being.
“Purely” incidental? As though it was a mere coincidence? I daresay if abortion could be made as significant a factor in the state races (and if it is “more” important than gay marriage), I can’t imagine the Republicans passing on such an opportunity.
I just wanted to be sure after multiple references to “the constitution” (meaning the national one), I didn’t waste time challenging a sudden and specious argument about a state constitution.
Oh, that’s clearly a mis-statement of my position. I’m not ignoring the effect on the fetus - I just see other priorities in play, i.e. that a woman is involved and that she exists, inconvenient though she might be to the pro-life stance.
Absolutely, with complaints of activist courts and crammed throats and whatnot. It’s not conceivable that the courts are defending individual freedoms - no, they act solely to spit in the face of hardworking Christian Americans.
It’s worth noting that while the author of that quote, Edith Jones, expresses misgivings, she did not side with McCorvey. Truth be told, I’m not sure what effect McCorvey’s change-of-mind is supposed to have had. Overturn Roe? Even if that happened, later rulings have followed similar lines.
Besides, what difference does it make if McCorvey herself feels guilty about being the “Roe” in Roe? Does she feel that she should not have been given the choice? That other women should not be given the choice? I think you’ve mentioned her change-of-heart a few times, actually, and it’s never been clear to mean just what it was supposed to prove.
Why? It looks like this is your best avenue for supplanting Roe. Of course, if it fails for lack of popular support or a lack of follow-through from Republicans who use the issue to get elected but have no interest in actually doing anything about it once in office, you won’t be able to blame liberals or the courts any more. Or maybe you still will, I don’t know.
The Federal Marriage Amendment isn’t “serious” ? It looks pretty serious to me, considering how many times congress addressed it from 2002-2006, with votes split mostly along party lines.
Because individual rights are important?
Not if the illegality had been pretty porous already. It’s like overturning Prohibition - anybody who’d really wanted a drink had already found avenues to get one, and enforcement was just a waste of time.
I’m kind of curious if pro-lifers can handle the problems of the society they want to create, truth be told, what with doctors jailed or driven out, more poverty, the occasional scandal when a pro-life spokesperson tries to quietly take their teenage daughter out of state for the procedure…
Sure. A lot of damage gets done in the process, but… y’know… omelettes and eggs.
You didn’t have to. We did it for you, free of charge.
Actually, the quote that was linked asked for cites that sperm contained human life and that what was provided.
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Show me a cite, post a link that actually says sperm contains human life. Either you are incredibly stupid, insane or both.
Once again. A sperm is not a human. If ti joins with an egg cell and fertilizes the egg cell then a human is created. some sense into yourself.
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This, particularly the last sentence.
Why are your morals and decisions based on them more important than the morals and decisions based on those of the woman who is pregnant (to steal a theme from tumbleddown)? Are you so sure of your morals and beliefs that you would have no problem with forcing them on others?
Really, no matter how often you want to deny it, if you are trying to curtail choice in any way, you are on the side of the anti-abortionists. Slippery slope and all that.
Deal breaker?
Either he means he doesn’t have sex with someone who’d have an abortion, or he’s deluded himself into thinking he’s got any moral or legal say in the matter.
Wouldn’t those be the same thing? I mean, even asking that prior to sex means he’s deluded about his say in the matter since a woman has the right to change her mind at any time. (About anything!)
Which is a lot of words that signify little, as the vast majority of abortions are not late term, and the vast majority of late term abortions are performed specifically due to health concerns for mother or fetus.
Meanwhile, you’re advocating on the side that doesn’t care why or when, they just want all abortions stopped. This “resemblance to a person” canard is exactly the appeal to emotion that is used by people who stand on the side of the road with photos of a 28 week fetus that was miscarried and try to pretend that it’s a 10 week fetus after a vacuum extraction termination.
And frankly, I don’t care if a fetus I’m carrying is the spitting image of my dead father or its father or me, for that matter, if continuing to carry it is going to make me suicidal, or keep me from getting cancer treatment or cause me to lose my job, therefore leaving me unable to feed my existing children or keep a roof over our heads. So long as it’s in my uterus, your opinion of its resemblance to whatever is moot.
You oppose them so hard that you’re parroting all of their major talking points, just moving the timeline past the first trimester as if that’s meaningful.
Like hell. I’m a woman of reproductive age. This is my life and my health and my interests on the line, being debated like it’s an appropriation for a new research plant in Paducah or some such shit. This is my ability to access reproductive healthcare being bandied about like a political football in 51 different legislative bodies. This is about me and every woman like me being able to go visit our doctor without being hectored and harassed on a public street as if that’s ever acceptable. You dislike me being passionate about that then quit opposing me, if you claim to not be on the side of the anti-abortion faction, and the get the hell out of the way.
So which of your personal decisions do you think we should put up to a vote? What medical procedures would you like a legislator deciding whether or not you can have? What decisions are you okay with being legally forced to endure mandated counseling or non-indicated and invasive medical procedures beforehand for someone else’s satisfaction? Which of your neighbors are you going to accompany to their next doctor’s appointment to second guess their doctor’s counsel and their decisions about what they should do about the state of their own bodies?
These are not public decisions. Women’s wombs are not public property. Your right to interfere with what happens in them is nil. The fact that you think that it’s appropriate to try to use public interference to control women’s reproduction is horrifying.
South Dakota already did one better. As of July 2011, any woman who wants to have an abortion there (at the one clinic) has to go through counseling, which has not been statutorily defined nor limited, at a crisis pregnancy center, a Christian-run, non-medical facility with volunteer-trained, non-medical and non-psychological counselors. It is only after a woman presents a signed certificate attesting that she endured such counseling (which can, from investigations into CPCs nationwide, last as long as six hours) that she may legally terminate a pregnancy.
As a fun little spanner in the works, none of the crisis pregnancy centers in South Dakota are willing to provide this counseling and certification (gee, wonder why, and wonder if that wasn’t the point all along?) so as of July, no woman in South Dakota will be able to have a legal abortion in the state.
Ah, the banality of evil.
Then apparently then in the “vast majority” of cases we seem to agree.
And people wonder why discussions of public policy turn into polarized hyperbole.
Turns out that’s not the case. If society can hijack my entire body (when I was of age) via the draft, it can make rules about abortion.
I support unrestricted access to abortion during the first trimester. They would say I’m diametrically opposed to their position. Both cannot be true.
That’s what living in a society entails. It can do any or all of those things.
Your position that you can terminate a fetus one minute before birth for any or no reason whatsoever is equally horrifying to me.
Yes, that’s a special kind of ignorance. Some of the state level representatives elected in just about every state are crazier than any of the people you see at the federal level.
And as you point out, society CAN impose these restrictions.
The answer in these cases is to keep the pressure up and engage rationally. Accusing everyone that isn’t absolutely in agreement with you of being in diametrical opposition isn’t going to get you very far.
Whilst you are right, one can always hope to get a straight answer out of a potential sexual partner concerning a matter directly related. Assuming everyone is fickle or dishonest is no way to live.
What, because idiots lie about what their grotesque signs are displaying, and shove them in the faces of anyone who might listen regardless of circumstances? Yeah, it is not generally the pro-choice side that resorts to crazy hyperbole.
When you break out “two wrongs make a right” in what’s an ostensibly serious discussion, you can’t expect to be taken seriously from that point forward.
Yes, purely incidental. There was no grand Republican scheme to make gay marriage an issue to win at the ballot boxes. Again, gay marriage is just not that big of an issue, and most certainly isn’t close to being as important as abortion.
And we’re back to this point. Essentially your argument is that because the woman exists, she can decide to act in any manner she chooses regardless of the effect it has on the unborn. Of course, when I take this logic and apply it elsewhere, you cry foul, as if it’s any less nonsense when used in your situation. I exist. I mean, really. Why can’t I do what I want with my body regardless of the effect it has on another?
It’s kind of hard to defend a freedom which doesn’t exist-- except in the ‘penumbra’ and ‘emanations’ of the Constitution, which requires you to hold the Constitution at just the perfect angle to be able to find.
Not because she didn’t want to, but because she couldn’t. The statute of limitations had passed.
Highly doubtful.
It’s not supposed to prove anything. I just find it… ironic… that one of the most iconic women as it relates to abortion in the U.S. is now a pro-life advocate. In fact, so is the other one (Sandra Cano, the “Doe” of Doe v. Bolton), who even testified that she was forced by her attorney to argue abortion in court. Just indicative of how the abortion debate is as a whole goes.
Whereas Democrats only use the abortion card because it works on college educated White women, Republicans actually do more to live up to their promises when it comes to abortion.
That’s just what I said.
Not if they come at the expense of another’s life, they don’t. Honestly, your argument was just as easily applied to slavery.
So you think that making abortions illegal wouldn’t change their incidence?
You wouldn’t happen to be fearmongering, now would you?
Only assuming you think that’d happen which, for the record, it won’t.
And thus were content to play a game you can’t lose.
See? There goes that “not forcing your beliefs on others” line again that pro-choicers like to use. I’d like to know what planet some people live where the morals of the majority of the majority are not
I find it funny how you can totally go on about your life and your health and your interests and whatever else while negating the existence of the unborn. I ask this question a lot, but whose life does unborn belong to? It’s kind of odd to argue that it’s wrong for someone to impose on you, but it’s not okay for you to impose on the unborn.
And get more people to agree with you and to negate the existence of the unborn, and maybe you wouldn’t have to worry about “being bandied about like a political football”.
(And have I said how much I just absolutely adore the phrase “reproductive healthcare”? Euphemisms always make me laugh.)
I would like to place a wager on this assertion. Care to take it?
You don’t think “hundreds of thousands of women will die from coat hanger abortions if abortion is made illegal” to be hyperbole?
If you do say so yourself. When someone starts announcing the score like that, my skepticism alarm goes berserk.
That’s only fair, I stopped taking you seriously a while back.
Society is about compromise. Anyone that thinks in absolutes is probably going to be marginalized and not taken seriously.
That you actually think that is an apt comparison then there’s no reason to go any further.
I note that you didn’t answer my most crucial questions: which medical procedure are you okay with legislators meddling in your ability to receive? Which neighbors will you be accompanying to their doctor appointments to get in your vote on what they should do with their bodies?
I actually think the draft is a somewhat appropriate comparison.
Let’s face it, we might debate personal liberty and right and wrong but the government can tell individuals what to do or what not to do with their bodies.
The draft insists that someone risks their body , even their very life, or go to jail. It insists on putting the body through rigorous training.
Nothing is perfectly analogous but I think the draft makes the point AV was trying to make.
No. The links did not say sperm contains human life. Sperm is part of a male. It is a haploid cell. It does not contain human life. Sperm joined with an egg creates human life:rolleyes:
Then again your pro-choice position is based only on YOUR religious beliefs.
Oh and surprise surprise you’re back again.
You remind of that famous scene in movies where the person is really uspet and makes this dramatic exit and then comes back into the room because they forgot something and they completely embarrass themselves.
You make me feel so sad for you. I will just agree to disagree with you as it would seem you are too filled with hate to debate!!!
I am filled with hate for stupid people such as yourself.
classy, are you a member of any organized religion? I was just thinking, if you are Christian, I’d remind you of John 3:16. Shouldn’t even have to look that one up.
I have nothing to say to you and none of your damn business what my religion is. I would never discuss that with the likes of you.
Shouldn’t you be at daycare this morning?