er… shouldn’t this go in Great Debates or something?
That depends. Are you referring to the original post, or to where the conversation wound up?
There is nothing to debate. Breastmilk is best. Formula is inferior. That is a fact. If you don’t “believe” that, you are sadly misinformed.
(Even the formula companies admit this. Almost every page on Nestle/Carnation’s web site has the following: “Note: Breastmilk is the ideal food for babies. Talk to your baby’s doctor about your feeding choices. If you suspect your baby is allergic to milk or whole milk proteins, or is prone to allergy, use only under a doctor’s supervision.” And I think you’ll find a similar quote on Enfamil and Similac’s web sites.)
WTF?! I didn’t state an opinion either way. And the original post YOU made argued cows’ milk vs. breastmilk.
But, I suppose you’re right, there is no debate because you don’t seem to care what anyone else wants to say…
Somehow, the fact that your sole 8 posts are all in this thread smacks of that creature that should not be fed, if anyone catches my drift 
…and to take it a step further, those of us who can drink milk without any ill effects were ** designed ** for it, using CorvusMellori’s description.
I don’t think anyone here is advocating cow’s milk or baby formula over breast milk. What most of the posters are saying is that formula, while not perfect, is more than adequate for most children, and in some cases a better choice than the child’s mother’s milk (as described by calliarcale).
A good analogy would be that mother’s milk is like synthetic motor oil, and formula is more like regular old petroleum motor oil. Sure the synthetic stuff is the best out there, but plenty of cars have been run a LONG time on the regular stuff, and car owners who run it aren’t doing themselves or their cars a disservice.
This probably IS a Great Debate, because the argument is a whole crowd vs. one person who refuses to listen to any opposing points and continues to shout his opinion and deride anyone who disagrees.
I’m not sure La Leche League is an unbiased source in this argument by any stretch. And I don’t suppose it’s worth talking about the psychological aspects of breast-feeding a child for such a length of time, or the problems is might pose for the mother (if she’s working or something)?
“I never said that starving is superior to formula. Yes, formula is superior to starving. But that’s about all it does… prevent starvation.”
Since nobody has done it yet, permit me to :rolleyes:
"People who think that formula is equivalent, or even close to, breastmilk have been fooled. My “arguments” are not “loose,” as Exapno Mapcase wrote. I have written only facts gleaned from various breastfeeding authorities. "
As opposed to medical authorities? Isn’t this like taking an anti-environmental position by buttressing your arguments with facts gleaned off the Exxon website?
“There is nothing to debate. Breastmilk is best. Formula is inferior. That is a fact. If you don’t “believe” that, you are sadly misinformed.”
As mentioned before, this “fact” falls down under special circumstances (malnourishment of the mother/drug-alcohol effects/etc), which makes it not a “fact” at all.
Actually, the psychological aspects of breastfeeding are wonderful. Breastfeeding promotes mother-infant bonding. And the “problems” it “might pose for the mother”? Sorry, but becoming a parent isn’t about the parent… it’s about the child. You do the best you can FOR YOUR CHILD, not for yourself. Sometimes those 2 needs come into conflict and you make decisions. But I guarantee this: breastfeeding is FAR easier than formula-feeding. With formula, you have to make bottles ahead of time if you’re going out somewhere, keep the bottles cold, and hope you can find a place to heat the bottles when you get there (which could be a pain at a store). You also have to wash bottles and nipples and always make sure you have formula on hand… not to mention the money you have to SPEND on formula (it’s not cheap). And if you don’t have any bottles made ahead of time even for home-use, you will be hurrying to prepare a bottle while your baby is crying and crying because s/he’s hungry. With breastfeeding, I don’t have to deal with any of those problems. It’s free. It’s always readily available. It’s always at the right temperature. I don’t have to wash anything. And as soon as my baby shows signs of hunger, I latch her on. No crying necessary.
And if a mother is working, well you see, they make these things called breastpumps, and you can pump milk 2 or 3 times a day at work which you then give to the daycare provider the next day for feeding the baby. Some women have a difficult time pumping. A breastpump is never as efficient at pumping milk as the baby is. So in such cases, some people might consider supplementing with formula during the day. However, at least that baby gets SOME breastmilk when with mother.
I guess you haven’t done the research? From the WHO’s web site:
Diet is crucial for all infants
It is true that in some environments not to breast-feed is particularly dangerous, even life-threatening, because of the high cost of infant formula, lack of clean water, difficulties associated with reading or following mixing instructions, and careless hygiene. However, the report insists, even where these conditions generally do not prevail, a deviation from the biological norm for virtually all infants may not be without danger where the health of infants and, not incidentally, that of their mothers is concerned. Dr Fernando Antezana, WHO Assistant Director-General, sums up the situation this way: “In all environments, infants who are artificially fed are at greater risk than infants who are breast-fed”.
[http://www.who.int/archives/inf-pr-1994/pr94-02.html]
Also:
Formula feeding may increase risk of sudden infant death syndrome (S.I.D.S.)
There are a number of studies showing a link between lack of breastfeeding and S.I.D.S. It has been found that for each month of breastfeeding, the chance of S.I.D.S. is reduced by 50% compared to formula fed babies.
Fredrickson, DD et al., “Relationship between Sudden Infant Death Syndrome and Breastfeeding Intensity and Duration.” Am. Journal of Diseases in Children, 1993: 147:460
Ford RPK, et al .“Breastfeeding and the Risk of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome.” International Journal of Diseases in Children, 1993, 22(5):885-890
Taylor BJ, Mitchell EA, et al. "Breastfeeding and the risk of sudden infant death syndrome. Int J. Epidemiol. 1993;22:885-890
Mitchell EA, Taylor BJ, Ford RPK, et al. "Four modifiable and other major risk factors for cot death: the New Zealand Study"J Paediatr Child Health. 1992;28:S3-S8
Scragg LK, Mitchell EA, Tonkin SL, et al. “Evaluation of the cot death prevention programme in South Auckland.” NZ Med J. 1993;106:8-10
[http://www.promom.org/101/index.html]
Also, please visit [http://www.breastfeedingtaskforla.org/ABMRisks.htm] for more stats on infant mortality linked to formula. I will quote 1 part of that page here:
"Mortality
- One sudden infant death for every 1000 live birth occurs as a result of failure to breastfeed in western industrialized nations.
_ - For every 1000 babies born in the U.Ss each year, four die because they are not breastfed."
I realize that’s a small percentage… but I am not willing to risk my child’s life that way. Those deaths are completely avoidable by breastfeeding.
Um, which “medical authorites” do you know who say formula-feeding is superior? Sure, maybe some old-school doctors who received their education before the past 20 years. Any doctor who says formula is better than breastmilk should rightfully be reported to the state’s medical board. It is dangerou misinformation. However, it’s true that most doctors, even young ones, don’t know a lot about the mechanics of breastfeeding. They receive very little training in it. So if a mother has any breastfeeding problems, she should be talking with a lactation consultant about it.
Formula is manufactured by pharmaceutical companies (except for Carnation, which is made by Nestle). Who do you think wins when a mother decides to use formula? The company who manufactures the formula rakes in the profits. But nobody rakes in profits from breastfeeding mothers. (Except maybe on some breastpumps and other such supplies that are not always necessary. And at least those items don’t compromise the baby’s or mother’s health.)
Well, actually, studies have shown that the mother’s nutrition has very little to do with the breastmilk “quality.” The milk of mothers from 3rd-world nations was compared to the milk of western mothers with high-quality nutrition. The contents of the milk were virtually identical. The mother’s nutrition will effect HER in a way. On days that I don’t eat as much protein and fat or drink as much water as I should, I find myself feeling a bit lethargic or I get a headache. But it has zero effect on my milk.
Also, breastmilk in and of itself vs formula: breastmilk is ALWAYS superior. There are only few special circumstances in which it MIGHT be preferable to use formula. Like I said, an occasional glass of wine is permitted and perfectly fine. If a woman goes out and gets hammered, yes she should pump and dump until the alcohol is gone from her system. If she gets hammered every day, yes, she should probably just use formula. But then, if she gets hammered every day, I don’t think she is taking good care of her children in the first place. Also, like I said, it is safe to take many prescription meds and continue to breastfeed. Dr Hale’s book outlines all of them (and there are many). He is a pharmacologist and has done extensive research on this topic. It has to do with the half-life of the meds and how much of it gets into the milk. Even with minute amounts of meds, this breastmilk is better than formula.
Also, one gray area is women infected with HIV or AIDS. The WHO’s stance on this can be found here: [http://www.who.int/child-adolescent-health/NUTRITION/HIV_infant.htm]
Basically, if hygiene (water) is safe and formula is affordable, the WHO recommends formula in such cases. If water is unsanitary and unsafe, then they advocate exclusive breastfeeding. The WHO determined that transmission of the virus via breastmilk happens in about 20% of cases, but it happens moreso with “mixed” feeding (a combination of breastmilk and formula). Exclusive breastfeeding tends to lower the risk of transmission.
These cases do not mean that the fact is not a fact. Breastmilk is best. In some cases, it might not be. (AIDS, certain meds, etc.) But that has nothing to do with the breastmilk itself! That has to do with an outside factor.
Yikes… c’mon people, let’s petition the mods to move this thread…
Naw, don’t worry. About every 6 months I go through a phase where I take on one zealot in one topic. To quote VampWillow:
“Bored now!”
You’re not an infant at age 2. That’s a toddler, and while I’m no expert on the subject, that strikes me as a VERY long time to breastfeed, and I’m not sure it’d be a positive to do it for that long.
I’m talking about the problems it would pose for women on maternity leave. Good luck taking two years off from a job.
Nobody has said that bottle-feeding is flat-out superior. You’re being overly defensive - except for the parts where you’re attacking and being offensive. :rolleyes:
Yeah. Bored now.
It doesn’t surprise me that you don’t understand what it is to nurse a toddler. You seem to know very little about nursing to begin with, so why would you know much about nursing a toddler. Not sure if you have children, but many toddlers are very picky eaters. So it’s sometimes impossible to get them to eat their meals. (Unless you stuff the food down their throat, which is abusive.) If you’re still nursing, you don’t have to worry, because breastmilk will give them all the nutrients they need. Nursing, however, is NOT just about nutrition; it’s also about comforting. Child gets hurt? Nurse 'em. Child is upset? Nurse 'em. And by the time they child is 2, you are not nursing 10 times a day anymore, because they are also eating solid foods by then. It’s more like 2-3 times a day. Yes, some nurse more than that. But the fact is, you don’t have to stop working to keep nursing. (You do, however, need at least a 3-month maternity leave to ESTABLISH breastfeeding, but that’s a whole other story.) I know several women who had to return to work who continued nursing until 2 years and beyond. It can be done. They and their children are happy, well-adjusted people. I’m not saying everybody should nurse for 2 years. But that is optimal. Any amount of breastfeeding is better than none.
I haven’t “attacked” anyone or been offensive. You’re just “bored” because you know I’m right and there’s nothing to debate. I know the facts. It’s obvious that I have researched breastfeeding more than any of you, and it’s obvious that none of you have ever done it or been around it day-to-day.
:raises hand:
I have a 19 month-old daughter, raised on formula, who pretty much disproves everything you rant about the negative effect of formula on children. I’ll take my living example versus your near-fanatical rantings anyday.
laughing How does one case disprove something that has been studied for decades?
I know many people who were formula-fed as babies (e.g., my husband, my sister, my sister-in-law, me) and quite a few babies who are currently formula-fed (e.g., a niece and nephew, some cousins). Sure, they are “fine” like your daughter. But, unfortunately, their risks for certain illness/diseases are higher (ear infections, asthma, Crohn’s disease, diabetes, to name only a few), and those risks are lowered significantly by breastfeeding. See http://www.promom.org/101/index.html. This has been proven in many studies. Just because you don’t like the facts… it does not make the facts untrue!
My child is much easier to console and calm down when she is upset than the formula-fed babies I know. All I have to do is nurse her. I don’t have to walk around the house for a half hour or rock her in a chair or hold her in a colic-hold or do a whole list of other things that might calm her down if done long enough. The fact is, breastfeeding, in addition to being healthier, IS easier. If you want to use formula, do whatever you’ve got to do. Somebody with hang-ups about breasts is probably not going to be interested in breastfeeding. But just make an INFORMED decision and know what it is you’re giving up. Many people make their decision uninformed or misinformed and with little support from hospital staff. That’s terribly sad.
“My child is much easier to console and calm down when she is upset than the formula-fed babies I know. All I have to do is nurse her. I don’t have to walk around the house for a half hour or rock her in a chair or hold her in a colic-hold or do a whole list of other things that might calm her down if done long enough.”
Interestingly enough, we don’t have to do that either.
Since we’ve degraded to arguing anecdotes about our children to prove our points, I’m gonna bow out now. As they say on AOL: Cya!
The breast-feeding vs. formula debate isn’t really related to this forum. Please continue the conversation in IMHO or Great Debates if you so wish.