Um, why on earth should we end the war in Afghanistan? You do realize that those mother-fuckers aided and abetted those other mother-fuckers on 9/11, right?
milroyj,
TV’s comment was a response to the following post by Lib:
The bolded portion is what our esteemed mod was responding to. I don’t think it’s really that ambiguous or difficult to figure out.
On preview, I note this bit of stupidity:
Those “motherfuckers” are gone, dipshit.
So because of the politicians in Washington, 3000 people in NYC, DC, and PA somehow “deserved it”?
Alas, it seems that they’re making a comeback in some parts of the country. The crime is that we started to do the right thing, then let ourselves get distracted by Bush’s “gotta get Saddam” adventure, and dropped the ball.
Karzai is sometimes referred to as the Mayor of Kabul, a reference to the fact that the central government is almost powerless outside the capital. Afghanistan needs a lot of time, attention, and money to turn it into something we’d recognize as a stable, democratic country. If we hadn’t succumbed to the administration’s lies about Iraq, we, along with all our allies (you remember, the ones who used to support our efforts, before we told them all to go fuck themselves), could have dedicated the resources needed, and might actually have been able to lead by example. All those opportunities were squandered by this administration.
Let’s try this once more, you stupid fucker. When Veb said, “We most certainly did,” she was not saying that we deserved to be attacked on 9/11. She was saying that we (the ordinary folks in the street) did this (torturing) to them (the poor sods who got rounded up and tossed into Abu Ghraib). In other words, we are responsible for the actions of our elected officials.
You are free to disagree with that statement, to assert that we can’t be held responsible for the actions of the politicians in Washington, that they, and they alone, are responsible for torturing prisoners in Iraq. What you’re not free to do is to keep misreading it. You’re not just stupid, you’re willfully, persistently, aggressively stupid.
Gaah…are you being deliberately obtuse? Read the part of Lib’s post that I bolded. TV was saying that “we most certainly did” do this to them at Abu Ghraib.
She was saying that she felt Americans were collectively responsible for the abuses. Lib was saying that only politicians were responsible and that “we” as Americans in toto did not commit the abuses. TV then reiterated a position that Americans bore collective culpability, i.e. “We certainly did.” Commit the abuses, that is. Not “deserve 9/11.”.
“Deserving 9/11” had nothing to fucking do with the exchange. That was just a superfluous appendage at the front of Lib’s quote, and even that wasn’t about 9/11 but about deserving reprisals for the torture.
It almost strains credulity, doesn’t it? How can someone that dense even figure out how to get online?
Who said they did? Or are the quotation marks around ‘deserved it’ for a non-grammatical purpose?
Argument, it’s an intellectual passtime, hence the absent conservatives.
That is such bullshit. Even setting aside that not everyone voted for those who were elected (or in Bush’s case, selected) — this is not a referendum democracy. What were we supposed to do, knock out the Secret Service men and walk into the Oval Office to take over? If so, why didn’t you?
That’s asinine. My point was what I actually wrote, not whatever hateful, ridiculous extrapolations you choose to imply.
Let me simplify this for you further, since apparently you have trouble with the basic concepts. There’s more than a little irony to be found in our attempting to impose democracy in Iraq as superior for placing control of the country within the hands of the people while pointedly disavowing any responsibility for the actions of our elected officials. We can’t have it both ways, claiming to stand for liberty and personal freedom for others while possessing only superficial, tissue-thin influence over own goverment.
And no, I do not hate America. I love it enough to want it to actually work as intended, which includes accepting responsiblity for what elected officials of any party do, good and bad.
You seem determined to cast everything in the most simplistic, partisan terms possible, milroyj. You insisting you’re a fireplug doesn’t make everybody else dogs, but have a ball viewing the world that way if you want. You must be getting something out of it or you wouldn’t do it. Just don’t expect everybody else to go along with the delusion.
Veb
I note that you’ve chosen to ignore xenophon’s statements about responsibility being commensurate with power.
Now that it’s obvious that the whole thing was a complete fuck-up, you, being a coward and a liar, deny any personal responsibility, and blame “the system”.
It’s an interesting contrast to the stuff you were posting in March 2003, in which you claimed that posters opposing the war bore personal responsibility for the suffering of the people in Iraq.
Including the phrase, IIRC, “liberal jackal pukes” to describe those who had reservations about the war. I’ve given up trying to make actual sense of all the permutations.
Veb
Since I am on record as opposing the war from the very beginning, I would appreciate an apology from you, Veb. (I don’t care about Desmostylus. He is forever careless about his slurs and unfounded accusations.) And in general, I have consistently for five years opposed any and all military hegemony, including repeated calls for the United States to withdraw ALL troops that it has stationed in more than half the nations on earth. A person might be a liberal jackass puke (if indeed I ever used the phrase), but it would not be for having reservations about the invasion of a sovereign nation when it has not harmed an American.
I’m in two minds here. Was I right about you being a liar, or was I right about you suffering from loss of memory and cognition?
The thread in question: A Plea for Tolerance on the Eve of War
In that thread, I condemned both Saddam’s attrocities and the invasion by American troops. So why are you citing it? Other than because you’re stupid, I mean.
:rolleyes:
Graveyard of honor, perhaps. Birthplace of some pathetic melodramatic rants? Definitely.
Your “condemnation” of the invasion consists solely of this:
Which is, of course, your usual giant sentient squid rubbish.
Your flapdoodle obliquity is truly boundless. First of all, it is the opponents, and not I, who introduce (and in fact who devised) giant squids in arguments. Second of all, your belief that the US military is something imaginary is the profoundest naivity I’ve ever seen. Third, your pathetic production of that thread in a vain attempt to bolster your point testifies to your intellectual cowardice. You deliberately neglected to produce posts like this one where I said:
You must wipe your ass with lies.
Yes, this is quite correct. I used the term “giant sentient squid rubbish” to mock your Libertarianism, and as a deliberate reference to the arguments that others have made in mockery of your beliefs.
Earth to Liberaltarian: What the fuck are you talking about?
Well, now, I did say March 2003, not May 2004. If you’ve changed your mind, admit the past error, change your behaviour, and move on.
No, I do it with liars. Like you, and like Scylla.
Y’know, I am just about annoyed enough to throw my two penn’orth in here. This
is, without question, an outright lie. You did not oppose the war; you spoke loudly and long in favour of the “destruction” (your word) of the Saddam regime; those of us who did oppose the war - myself included - were the targets of, at best, your mockery and condescension, at worst, a truly disgusting level of personal vilification.
There was a time when I would have expected better of you.