You seem to be a bit rusty on the whole “shoving words into my mouth” concept. I never said that you said anything like that, just that’s the impression you gave. But, if you want evidence, let me quote what you said there:
I rest my case.
Well, I’ll at least agree that if it was meant to be a joke, it wasn’t very good. But pray do tell, how was I supposed to divine that you were joking? There’s simply no indication. I think you’re weaseling.
I don’t have much to add to this discussion, not having read the original threads. But I would just like to say that Monty’s post above is amazing in both its length and its stupidity.
What, obfus? You can’t read either?
So then why are either of you even bothering to post? If you’d like to discuss someting, then discuss something.
Because if this thread is going to degenerate into “my post can beat up yours” then it’s getting closed.
Actually, I found it to be a pretty accurate point-by-point commentary on Acco’s comments. I’m wondering if Acco would be willing to provide a rebuttal, aside from a bit of aloofness-wannabe pooh-poohing.
This thread’s shaping up to be a battle between the “Do something about your problem or shut the hell up” contingent and the martyr-complex team-up.
I’m more or less on the “do something or shut up” side.
Note that this is not the “Shut up, I don’t want to hear your problems” side. Nor is this the “Shut up and take it like a (wo)man” side. Nor is it the “Heartless assholes who think everyone else is too unimportant to care about” side.
This is the “If all you’re ever going to do about your problem is complain and look for sympathy, shut the hell up” side.
Now, admittedly, the idea that everyone affected by the problems in Israel could just pack up and start life anew somewhere else with no problems is kind of half-baked, at the least. But that’s a logistical and logical error, not a weakness in the “Do something about it” philosophy.
My take on it is, if you’re actually doing something to help fix your problems, whether mental or emotional or life-situational, I’m on your side. But if the major reason you bring such problems up is to hear “awww, poor victim…egostroke**egostroke”, my keyboard will be idle for a long time…
There was a time when the notion of standing beside obfusciatrist on this issue would have made me ill. I was a prime enabler. A raging liberal. A great seer-of-victims-in-all-situations. Somehow I got over that…
jayjay
Thanks and kudos to Waverly and Spoofe.
jayjay and Acco:
The Great Debates thread about self image almost directly asked the question: “Are women affected by the media and why do you think that is since it’s an unnatural goal to even try to achieve?”
I was one of the first women to answer. Yes, I am affected by the media, I know it’s silly, but here are the details, blah blah blah.
The conversation continued smoothly with a give and take until Acco jumped in with his idea that since the media doesn’t affect him, it shouldn’t affect anybody and anybody who lets themselves be affected doesn’t deserve his almighty “empathy”.
Uno: Not one single woman in the thread asked for ADVICE from Acco or anyone else on what to do to solve their problem.
Zwei: Turning off twenty eight years of being affected by the media doesn’t happen when some yahoo comes in and tells us two.
Three: None of us were looking for pity, compliments, sympathy OR empathy. We were stating a case. It was only when Acco showed up that it presumably became a self help seminar.
jarbaby
I’m sorry, one more thing Acco:
Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think I’ve even interacted with you ONCE since the women in the media thread. So how I was on your ass is beyond me.
also, using the word two instead of to was a clever sort of play on words in my last post.
yeah. that’s it.
jarbaby
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Alphagene *
**
Yeah, god forbid that ever happen in the Pit.
And Acco, thank you for making the rest of us young twenty-somethings look stupid. :rolleyes:
I see. So, then, if you can’t change something, run away from it? Run away from your problems, rather than stay and TRY to fight? Even when you can’t afford to leave, you could get KILLED trying to leave, you’re stupid?
Some of these are situations where you’re damned if you do, and damned if you don’t.
And HOW would you profess to changing these things?
You know, it’s when you get this attitude-just deal with it-that injustice, evil, discrimination, violence, abuse-you name it-goes on.
Hell, if Ghandi had listened to you, Queen Elizabeth might be Empress of India.
Not an uncommon phase; it typically happens when undeniably well-meaning adolescent fervor to remold the world finds a focal point of clarity, and fuses with initial steps of growing into post-adolescent responsibilities. I think it’s usually just a transitional phase, though. More an annoyance than a damnation.
You don’t see the difference between a responding to a post and insulting a post without explanation?
If you have a well thought out response to a post and you toss a few jabs in then that’s keen.
But if you pop in just to declare that Monty’s post is stupid like you’re the King of Siam then it looks like you have some personal grudge.
And that kind of exchange gets real stupid, real fast.
First, Monty, excellent response. My post certainly clearly cannot beat up yours (but my father’s post can beat up your father’s).
Acco, you said "If you don’t like something, change it. If you (are) not able to change it, accept it. "
OK then…
so why then can’t you accept Bush’s decision on stem cell research? Clearly you cannot change it, so you must, by your own admission, learn to accept it. Or does your philosophy apply to everyone but you?
And lets get back to the Mid East for a bit. Why should everyone move? HOW can everyone move? In one month I’m planning on moving a mere 40 miles away and I can’t even believe the amount of preparation that’s going to take. You’re asking half a country to pack up and move their entire life and go to another country because of someone else’s problems.
How?
Why?
Where?
Or…if they’re too poor to move, too sick to move, too whatever to go somewhere other than their HOME they can stay there and accept it. Accept dying at any given moment? How the fuck do you expect them to accept that?
Do you know what I heard tonight from people actually living there? Right now there are Palestinians that have been walking around crowded areas and blowing themselves up at random. This shit doesn’t even make the news because the death toll doesn’t reach “newsworthiness” amounts.
The people there can’t change it so they should learn to live with dying at any given moment? And if you lived there, you’d only go out to work. Hey Acco here’s a fucking newsflash for you: you can die on your way to work just as easily as anyone else. And buildings crumble and people die from the rubble even if you’re cowering in one trying to save your life.
Life is more difficult than your version of reality. Accept that.
Hmm . . . let’s see. I am currently unable to change the following things:
There is war in the Middle East.
There are children everywhere being abused, raped, dismembered, killed.
There are women and men suffering from the same fate.
There are wingnuts posting on the SDMB.
I cannot change those facts. I cannot accept that they will always be the case, either. Why? Because this is not a world that relies on binary decision-making. There are alternates; I am not bound by this “change or accept” philosophy which has to be the biggest fucking crutch I’ve seen since André the Giant broke his leg. Gee, I can’t change something, so of course I should accept that it will be the case and move on with my life . . .
How about:
Not denying them but realizing that they are there (which is very much NOT the same as accepting them)
Trying to deal with them (which isn’t accepting either)
Realizing that everyone can do something.
We all bring something to a debate, Acco40. From now on, I think you should bring appetizers and let those of us who do NOT have our heads up our asses do the debating.
Is it reality you see or is it a simplified version that allows you to use that “change or accept” crutch?
So how would you handle them?
Missed a decimal point in there, Acco . . .
The fuck-headedness of telling people to “just leave” Jerusalem, the most important religious city for two religions, is truly Bunnyhurtian.
Not to mention, exactly what country is opening its borders to all these walkers? I’m not aware of any.
But acco’s charting new territory with the “just accept it.”
“Damn … another terrorist bomb blew up 20 people in my favorite bar. Guess happy hour’s somewhere else tonight.”
Jeez, take it easy on the poor guy! Kids are stupid. I was stupid, and said some stupid things, when I was young. I didn’t know any better, and so I thought I did (know better, that is). And I also remember thinking that those with more experience weren’t wiser, they had just compromised their principles. I remember spouting off about a lot of silly absolutist ideas. Thank god I never did it in writing like this. Someone should save these threads and email them to Acco in ten years. Acco obviously has never had to test his philosophy against any real problems of his own, or he would have modified it by now.
I find that the best way to get my dog to stop stealing Kleenex out of the trash is to ignore her. If it doesn’t get a rise out of me, it isn’t worth her time. I bet the same thing will work for smartass loudmouth punk kids.
I swear on the heads of every damn diety that can possibly exist that if I could evacuate that damn area, I would lace it with enough fucking nuclear radiation to make it totally unlivable for a million years. If you want to sacrifice yourself to some religious cause, it’s your life. But if you have a family you have sworn to protect with your life, use your misbegotten life to get your family the hell out of harms way!. I know that there are Jews that believe that it is their GOD GIVEN DUT*Y to sacrifice their lives to keep that land, and it might work out if it weren’t for the fact there are other factions that believe the same damn thing with all their hearts also. Add to that the fact that none of these factions want to play the martyr and would rather be “Avenging Angels”, and mass destruction unsues.
I have empathy for those who are stuck in a situation over which they have no control, and suffer for it needlessly.
I have empathy for children born into such situations. I have no empathy for those who can walk away from such situations but refuse to do so out of pride. And I have nothing but loathing for those that would endanger those they have sworn to protect out of religious pride. Yeah, I know there are dangers everywhere, and people die crossing the streets, and people die in car accidents, and people die slipping in the bathtub-but there is no reason to increase the odds by living in the middle of a fucking war zone!
You get your family out of nasty situations(it ain’t gonna be easy, but keeping your family from harm is worth it, isn’t it?), and ask for my ear, and you’ll have my ear and a place at my table, no matter what religion you hail from.
You ask for my help to stay in Disaster Central and drive the interlopers out, knowing full well that someone somewhere else in the world is getting the same song and dance from those you consider to be the bad guys, and you ain’t getting squat.
A small aside to all the sides in whatever cause you’re fighting for-You might not what to believe this, but those “other guys” don’t believe that they are the bad guys. Imagine that! They believe what they believe with all their hearts, are faithful in their own way, have the same religious epiphanies that you have, and go home to their families with the same hatreds of you that you have of them. You want “Bad Guys” that cackle with glee when they plot to destroy Goodness, Niceness and Decency? Go read a comic book. Go watch a crappy action-adventure film. Listen to any one of a thousand right or left wing radio programs. But don’t you dare point your trigger finger at the shadow hiding behind that rubble. I bet that if I hit the floodlights, you’d see someone pointing their trigger finger at you.
Screw it.
Rant’s over.
You can resume your little game of King Of The Hill now.
BTW, if I remember right, in your version nobody ever wins.
Damned right, but if people remembered to put were more concerned about looking after their families, and less worried about the righteousness of their cause, there wouldn’t be this problem in the first place.
Whereas I wouldn’t be surpised if it’s young men with deeply held, overly simplistic beliefs that are responsible for most of the ill will out there.
Who the fuck switched my coffee for decaf? Anyway, you can work out what I mean.