Acco40, shove your empathy where you keep your brains.

Alright, there are a couple of things going on here.

First of all, jarbabyj and magdalene are pissed at me because [gasp!] I told them to take responsibility for their emotions concerning the feelings stirred in them when seeing images of women in the media… to control their own fate, instead of being at the mercy of every Tommy Hilfiger ad they see. Get help. See a shrink. Do what you gotta do to beat it. Take action! (or accept it).

I’ll be the judge of whether or not it was ‘clever’.

So Magdalene decides to start a pit rant. Alright.

Next, every other fuck (i.e. Monty) out there smells blood in the water and comes running over here to take a shot.

He didn’t seem anxious? Huh. I coulda swore…
As far as the Middle East situation goes,

Simply ‘running away’ from the problem is not what I said at all. It is one of your options, sure. You could still die anyway, yes. In blockbuster movie terms is it cowardly? Yes. I may not ‘run away’ as many of you would like to think, but then again I’ve never been in a holy war, or any war for that matter, so I don’t know what I’d do.

And before you hit that ‘submit reply’ button, ask yourself if you’ve been in a holy war, because if you haven’t, your opinion means as much as mine… in short, no one knows what they’d do in that situation.

I’m not saying it’s a cut-and-dried issue either as many have blindly assumed. There are no easy answers.

If you are gonna stay in the war zone, remember there is a good chance you will die. Is that incorrect?

If you stay and fight, more power to you, but you may die. It’s a reality.

If you leave, there is a better chance you will survive, however, are you willing to go through the pain/cost/risk/etc. of moving?

Does your religion prevent you from backing down? If it does, then are you willing to die for your faith? You had better be.

I’m sure the Israelis and Palastinians go through their lives wishing that the situation would miraculously disappear, but the realist weighs his or her options and makes tough choices based on that reality.

The two pegs can’t fit in the same hole. Both sides want the other dead. There is a city in turmoil. There are heroes and villians on both sides. I’m not arguing the validity of the conflict. I’m saying that owning up to the reality of just how fucked up it is is the first step in making a decision to save, or contribute, your life.

The only solution you can make is a personal one. It’s fuckin’ idealists on both sides who keep this rolling. “All or nothing” they say. “My side is obviously the right side… I’m gonna stay and fight!”

Is this what you’d do? Because the guy who’s got you in his sights isn’t thinking about peace accords drawn up by the fuckin’ US… no, he’s thinking "This city is mine … there are no draws, no agreements… all or nothing.

So, the personal decision is based on that reality - that until one side backs down, blood will continue to be shed. Surely both sides understand and feel the veracity of the other! Stay and fight if it’s what you believe, but understand that there are just as many on the other side as you who feel just as strongly.

I personally do not feel that my life is worth my religious pride. That is all.

So to those idealists who believe they should all stay and take up arms: ‘heroes’ end up dead and martyred. This is gonna solve something? From what I’ve seen thus far, it seems to make things worse.

Idealists: By fighting and righteously defending their way of life, does that make this war noble in your eyes? Many who have said “stay and fight, defend what you believe!” will have to be a little more specific about what side they are rooting for.

So to everyone else, what the fuck do you propose we do about it, given that you think I’m such a mindless asshole? I’d like to hear your bright ideas.

Oh yeah, fuck you all who took pot shots at me without at least reading my posts and made blind judgements. Have a nice day.

Guess what snuggles: NOBODY ASKED YOU FOR ADVICE. And I’m not asking for it now. No one. Not a single one of us said “what should I do to change this.” We were simply talking. And by me saying “I know this is crazy” is that not heaping responsibility on myself? I think so.

I’ll be the judge of whether or not it was ‘clever’.
[/QUOTE]

I’m sorry. I just have to, and I wish I could do it in bold, 24 pt. type:

:rolleyes:

You may now return to your Middle East conflict, unfettered by my opinions. Which should fit in well with your personal life philosophy.

jarbaby

In all seriousness - where do you suggest that a million people go to?

They could become refugees, maybe. But then is it serving your family more to take everything they know and love from them and placing them in an alien environment that doesn’t want them and resents them being there? After all, it’s still very very unlikely that you or any member of your family will be the one killed by the next bomb. In a city of a million souls, ‘only’ a dozen are killed each time. But how many refugees are killed by squalor and poverty?

Your argument is irrational.

pan

OK, Kabbes but…

Not everyone is going to make that decision to leave though. Many would stay for one reason or another.

Basically, I’d like to see everyone put down their weapons, put aside their differences, and live in happiness, but this isn’t going to happen either.

Like I said, there are no easy answers.

Then your suggestion is no suggestion at all. For if those you advise were to follow your advice, it wouldn’t be possible.

And if even one leaves then they are still a refugee with the attendent problems I have already identified. That’s no choice at all.

So your advice is worthless. And all you can say is “there are no easy solutions”.

Well that’s what people have been trying to point out to you.

pan

Actually, that’s the opposite of what you said above. You did say:

did you not?

Regarding combat zones: I have actually been in a combat zone.

Listen up, dingus. In the “Body Image and the Media” thread, I tried to show, over and over, how the media and advertising culture works to promote unrealistic images that make SOME women feel bad. I included a few examples of things I had experienced personally to make my overall case. In other words “yes, this is what is going on in the culture, this is who profits from it, here are cites of research on this phenomenon, and here are a few examples from my own life that reinforce this.” I never asked for anyone’s advice, sympathy, pity - in fact I told the “White Knights” in the thread over and over that their sympathy and advice was not wanted. The idea being that once people recognize the problem and where it comes from, they could take their own steps toward fixing it.

Nowhere did I complain about being a victim, ask for anyone’s advice or sympathy, or really discuss my personal experience. I don’t think anyone reading the thread can tell much of anything about how I look or how I feel about it. I tried as much as possible to discuss things on general terms that could be verified with research.

Your suggestion that I need therapy, that I personally am overly-affected by Tommy Hilfiger, or that I am at the mercy of anything is WRONG, FALSE, PATRONIZING, STUPID, IDIOTIC, AND NOT BASED ON ANYTHING I POSTED IN THE THREAD.

You didn’t bother to disagree with anything I actually posted. In fact, you had no disagreement with my basic argument about how advertising works and where someof the body-image problems for some women come from - you agreed with me. What you did do was come into a discussion with some incredibly hostile, shortsighted, patronizing shite. And I quote:

You called me a hypocrite. Or perhaps a governmental system ruled by hypocrites…

I’ll say this one more time: Recognizing that something is a problem, discussing the causes and effects of the problem, debating the extent to which it is really a problem, and suggesting solutions for it IS NOT MOANING! It is not a quest for validation by or advice from you. And guess what? Deciding that your personal philosophy is not relevant to the discussion at hand is also …NOT MOANING!

You came into the thread with your fucking “personal philosophy” shit without discussing the issue. That is why I personally am annoyed with you. When I saw this attitude represented in the MidEast thread, I posted here. It was the same thing - we were discussing problems in the Middle East, you came in and offered one of your pat, easy, ill-thought-out, and IRRELEVANT “what I would do in that situation” advice. Hence, this pit thread.

This thread is not a battle between the forces of “self-help” and the forces of “self-reliance.” Please. It is a battle between the “I’m Acco40 and if you don’t accept my pat solution to every problem under the sun then I have no empathy for you” and the forces of, well, me. Carry on.

There are no easy answers. But there are choices. I cannot speak for each and every Israeli and Palestinian.

Monty: Just because there are no easy answers doesn’t mean there are no choices. How could you make this connection?

Kabbes: I’m sure for some it is impossible to leave. However, by staying, one is not obligated to fight or get directly involved… that is a choice which they do have. There are always choices… right up until you’re against the wall with a blindfold on.

vs.

So, specifically which Israelis and which Palestinians are the “idiots who don’t know how to come in out of the rain”?

Words fail me…

Acco40,

Sir, let me just point out a couple of things here:

You speak about the plight of women, without being one.
You speak about the issues of the Middle East without being there.
You speak about stem-cell research without scientific or religious knowledge.

You are an arrogant child. Your opinion on these issues is just that - your opinion. You are entitled to it, but it doesn’t mean that it’s informed, intelligent or valid.

You have not made ANY valid arguments for ANY of your positions. Slagging off your girlfriend for her body issues does not make an argument - it makes you an unsupportive asshole.

Suggesting that persons in the Middle East should “just leave” does not make you clever or witty, it makes you short sighted and obtuse - where do you suggest they go? Your house, perhaps? And then they can slag off your girlfriend’s fat ass as well?

Dismissing the opinion of your co-worker on stem-cell research because her religion is different than yours is small-minded and intolerant.

You have done a splendid job, in all of your posts, of making yourself look like an ass. Rather than spouting off about issues which you clearly have no knowledge of, why don’t you try to learn something.

The crux of the problem is you are an uninformed moron - you can
a) accept it, and accept the contempt of your peers,

or you can

b) change it, take some of the points that the members here, most of who have WAY more life experience than you, to heart and try to apply them to your own LIMITED KNOWLEDGE of the world.

Hey guy - It’s YOUR argument.

Al.

acco, your singleminded pursuit of utter moronity and offensiveness should be applauded. you are an insignificant pissant, and i commend you for it.

in fact, i see a future career for you as a motivational speaker. acco presents: the seven habits of moronical, offensive, insignificant pissant.

coming soon to a theater near you. check your local paper for theaters and listings.

Magdalene:

Believe it or not, I’m a living, breathing human. I do not embody “self-help” rhetoric. OK?

If you want to throw me in the Pit because you’re offended that I originally tried to help you… well, I think that’s a little fucked up.

I’m trying to add to the debates a pragmatic, realistic view. I’m sorry if what I say comes off as high-and-mighty; 99% of the time it is not meant to.

Can your skin be any thinner, Mag?

essvee: I didn’t catch anything of substance in there. Are you looking to pad your total posts column?

Do you got anything to say to me? If not, then get the fuck out.

Let’s put it in bold, all caps:

NOBODY ASKED FOR YOUR HELP, MR. FIXIT

Your ‘advice’ to get over ourselves was completely unsolicited and when it wasn’t taken you were offended. Shocking.

jarbaby

Hold up folks - I’m convinced there’s a reasonable person in there somewhere. They just haven’t had to confront their own suggestions before.

Acco - this is entirely the point. You cannot speak for each and every whoever in a debate. Life is complicated. Pretending that there is a straightforward fix is not appreciated by those to whom your suggesting it.

You approach things in a very dogmatic way, seemingly without really thinking about it. For example, this suggestion that anyone who doesn’t “get in out of the rain” is an idiot. You now seem to agree that it is a lot more complicated than that. But still you fight on…

Think it through to the bitter end, Acco. One is not obligated to fight? Well those who have their arms blown off who you have no sympathy for (NOT empathy folks, unless it has happened to you) weren’t fighting. They were just trying to live. And “get directly involved” - what does that mean? If I’m an Israeli grandmother in a pizza restaurant trying to eat dinner, am I “directly involved”? What about if I’m a Palistinian refugee living in a camp - am I “directly involved” then?

Sure there are always choices. But sometimes the best choice is still unpalatable. And the choice may not even make sense to you because you don’t have all the information.

There are all kinds of blindfolds and many different types of wall.

pan

Hmmm… you’re upset that someone started a pit thread about you, eh? You could always take your own advice and get over it, I suppose…

RiffRaff:

I accept it… doesn’t mean I shouldn’t call it out for the shit it is.

Sigh.

Acco40, there are two whole forums for “advice” and “help.”
If you go to IMHO or MPSIMS, you can receive advice on questions like:

“Am I masturbating correctly?”
“Why won’t any girls go out with me?”
“I’ve been told I’m obtuse and arrogant. What should I do?”
“Who here thinks I should post less and read more?”
“Is my personal philosphy too simplistic?”

Do a search on “advice” in those fora and you will come up with a rich portrait of the human condition, from haircuts to cat behaviors to much more serious subjects. Posters there will welcome your advice if you are thoughtful and kind about giving it.

In Great Debates, you can safely assume that no one wants your advice. I will repeat once again: In the “body image” thread, I was not interested in discussing my own body image or receiving advice on how to fix it. I was interested in discussing the phenomenon in general. I found your comments to be rude, offensive, irrelevant, and a hijack of the topic. In the Middle East thread, I once again encountered your half-assed “advice” to people to “just leave” their homes. This is a bad debating style. It implies all sorts of assumptions that have no basis. It’s shoddy and offensive to people who want to discuss the issue instead of your personal philosophies of live.

Please stop it.

Ha! In that case I accept your deliberate stupidity!

Magdalene:

You are the one who is rude and arrogant. Just leave me alone. I don’t care to talk to you anymore. I’m finished with you - I’ll steer clear of you in the future, believe me. Goodbye. This is our final correspondance.