w/ regards to the Church scandal, the priests committing the crimes were Americans, the victims were Americans, and the Church officials covering up the crimes were American. What struck me about the response to the scandal was the way some conservative Catholic columnists, like Peggy Noonan and Pat Buchanan, tried to defend the indefensible. Stating that most of the victims were teenagers not children, that the media were guilty of anti-Catholic bias etc. It seemed just like those black leaders who step up to defend the indefensible any time a black person gets in trouble in public. Jesse Jackson rushing to defend the high school thugs in Decatur, IL, the black ministers supporting Mike Tyson when he raped Desiree Washington, Maron Barry’s supporters in DC after the endless series of drug and corruption scandals, etc.
As to Helms and Thurmond, I’m convinced by the circumstantial evidence. Part of the reason men like these had affairs with black mistresses was because of the impossibility of these women demanding marriage or pressing a claim for paternity. I don’t neccessarily think this is mud dragging. Thurmond in particular has enjoyed his reputation as a rogue. Helms has at least paid for his daughter’s education, which is more than many men, black or white can claim for their outside children.
Perhaps I shouldn’t have included George Mason, one of the forgotten founders and author of the first version of the Bill of Rights, as an example of poor family values. Although he did father several children with one of his slaves, he acknowledged these children, ultimately freeing them and providing them with an inheritance. He also bitterly opposed bringing slavery into the new nation, even though he was a slaveholder himself.
The pit is the place for impolite posts. Mine are based on facts, and I stand by them.
You’re convinced by the circumstancial evidence, hell, maybe I’ll be convinced too when I look it over at my leisure, but if there’s one thing my time lurking on the SDMB has taught me, it’s the value of intellectual discipline (and the definitions of squick and felch). Your post was a short insightful masterpiece of logic and truth, but out of the midst of all your impassioned observations the words “Strom- Helms- illegitimate children- black mistresses” come leaping out, and little-known bombshells like that have the effect of obsuring the point you were making. Your post is this close to being powerful enough to convince those whom you are trying to convince; instead, it’s going to have the effect of bringing the original discussion grinding to a halt while attention shifts en masse to Jesse and Strom.
That they each have illegitimate, biracial children may be true, but it is not proven, and thus cannot be asserted without being challenged.
Sheesh. Not only are you convinced enough of these allegations to state them unequivably as facts (with no explanation), you know what they were thinking at the time.
I don’t have “white culture”. I like what I like. If other people like it too, that’s great. Doesn’t matter what color they are. I don’t think there’s any such thing as white or black “culture” except in the minds of people who want to make easy generalizations.
Sadly, that’s not true, or at least not proven. America is where the crimes and coverups have been exposed. There is no reason to believe that the same or similar crimes have not been committed by priests in other countries, or that bishops elsewhere aren’t covering them up. Indeed there are definite indications that pedophilia and ephobophlia are RCC-wide problems.
I’m not neccessarily trying to convince anyone of anything. I’m expressing an informed opinion. This is the pit, after all.
wrt the RCC, I never suggested that the problem was an exclusively American one. But the failure of American officials to adequately address the issue in America is an American problem.
wrt to Helms and Thurmond, I don’t need to know what they were thinking. I know enough about the history and culture of the South to know that well to do white men often had black mistresses. Being able to publicly deny these relationships and the children produced from them was part of their appeal. This is something you either understand or you don’t.
We have definitive proof wrt to Jefferson because of scientific advances and because he’s no longer around to cover things up. In his Notes on Virginia, and again in his Autobiography, he wrote of the inferiority of blacks and the impossibility of whites living with blacks, while a (partly) black woman was cooking his food, keeping his house, and providing him with services above and beyond the domestic. This hypocrisy is typical.
Does this mean that Jefferson was not a great man? No. Does it mean that he was a complex, self contradictory man? Absolutely.
White culture is superior to black culture. In black culture, the media has been contaminated with undesireables. The media should always be either cloudy white or cloudy yellow, depending on the type. A darkening of the media means that undesired bacteria or fungi have contaminated the agar and that the sample needs to be thrown out. Remember to wash, rinse, and autoclave the flasks before re-use.
What? Proper aseptic technique is just as relevant as the Catholic Church with regards to the OP.
I thought it was a cool post BelowJob. Representing things as facts which are only conjecture or hearsay will get you in trouble here, though.
Hehe. I’ll let all you Dopers in on a secret. I’m Strom Thurmond’s jungle fever love-child. I remember when I was 4 years old and the War Between The States raged on. . .
Eh. I believe there are cultural artifacts which tie most black Americans (those people descended from American slaves) together. Our affiliation is certaintly more than skin deep. There’s a black subculture just like there’s Italian-American subculture or gay subculture. Noticing that black Americans are not just white people in brown skins is neither racist or wrong.
But just because there’s a subculture shared by African Americans doesn’t mean white people have one. Sure, “white” ethnicities/special groups have their own subcultures, but besides the mainstream culture that we all share, white folk–as a group–don’t have their own special culture. That’s like saying Asians, Latinos, and black people share a culture simply because they are minority groups.
Wait, I just thought of something. Clapping on 1 and 3 and eating mayonnaise sandwiches…could these be aspects of “white” culture?
Well, Klaatu, I doubt it, because I know that many of the gay posters on the board would recognize a Mr. Show joke when they saw one. Don’t you ever – ever – attempt to paint me with some kind of homophobe brush.
I have both white and black friends and have to admit I really don’t see an real world increase in respect for elders or “family values” in black (vs white) familes that I am familiar with. If anything the black children are just as disrespectful and talk back even more disparagingly to their mothers. I will admit that in black families with fathers on site this almost never happens, but white children will sass their fathers (especially the daughters) if they think they can get away with it.
Do you have a cite for this assertion of yours of black vs white disaprities in respect for elders and “family promoting” behavior?
Re-read pl’s post, astro. He clearly states it’s his opinion based on his observation. Just as your point that black children ‘talk back more disparagingly to their mothers’ is your opinion and nothing else.