I see no distinction there between different kinds of fraudulency. No way to tell an unremarkable false name or address from Batman, Gotham City, NY.
Keep up with the clairvoyance classes, though. You show promise.
Jeez, and I get accused of “handwaiving”…
You and Dio have already said they flag the suspicious ones before sending them on, right? Sounds to me like they do some checking already, if not conclusive.
Sure, the Batman ones. But they can’t do the ones that aren’t obviously bogus. And we still don’t have a factual cite for the numbers of the ones that do get submitted, bogus or not. We do, however, know how many of these actually turn into votes and therefore how much effect they have on actual elections.
BTW, you’ve just invalidated Sam’s latest retreat-covering argument with that.
There is no there there.
The same old imaginary tu quoque shit yet again ??? Puh-leeeeze.
C’mon - this needn’t be so absolute. When ACORN workers were prosecuted for fraud in Seattle a couple of years back, the organization was not prosecuted - but they did proceed under a consent decree to tighten up their training and supervisory procedures.
Also, those defending ACORN wouldn’t likely defend the embezzlement of close to a million dollars from the organization in 1999-2000 by the brother of Wade Rathke, the organization’s founder - nor the fact that this crime was kept secret from donors and even the ACORN board so that that man’s reputation could be protected. This blew up last year forcing Dale Rathke to leave the organization (amazingly, he had continued to work for ACORN after the theft) and Wade to reduce his role there.
And now comes this.
ISTM that ACORN has a few matters to set right. And frankly an organization like this has to build up a reputation for integrity. Wade Rathke said he hid the embezzlement because he didn’t want that to be used as a weapon against the organization - but the coverup was worse than the original crime as far as perceptions like this go.
There are conservative organizations I don’t donate to because I don’t trust them. Were I a liberal, this might be true of ACORN.
And you’re blaming that crime on the victim? Dare we ask why, or do we already know?
Why do you think so? The validity of voter registrations has nothing to do with who delivers them to City Hall.
Well, the founder conspired in the coverup, and while he stepped down as chief organizer for ACORN he remains chief organizer for ACORN international LLC, per the article. So I’m blaming him, sure, to the extent that he made the situation about ten times worse to protect his brother.
I think calling this blaming the victim wildly misstates things - it is more like calling out a co-conspirator.
Here’s where I get confused. Seems like all the discussion here is based on voter registration, but it’s clear that ACORN is involved in more activities than that.
Maybe I have to be clearer. How does any of that reflect badly on ACORN or its reputation, rather than on the guy who stole from it?
Maybe you’re not actually trying to smear them. Maybe you really haven’t thought this out. It’s possible.
If ACORN isn’t the victim, who is? How can you say the agency which was stolen from wasn’t the victim? If you’re saying ACORN wasn’t a victim, then you’re saying there wasn’t a crime.
What are you talking about? All ACORN would have to say is, “If we find even one fraudulent registration in the pile a worker submits, no payment will be forthcoming for any of it.”
Even if they did random spot checking, the potential of losing all the money would greatly reduce the incentive to cheat, wouldn’t it?
Or, if they don’t want to be that draconian, they could say that for every fraudulent registration they uncover, the worker involved will forfeit 50 good ones. Or something like that.
Or even just, you know, FIRE the people who turn in bad registrations.
As for not citing evidence that this is damaging the system, I gave you MULTIPLE cites. Did you even bother to read them? The CNN investigation went to an electoral office that had been swamped by ACORN dumping 5,000 registrations on them just at the deadline, with HALF of them being fraudulent. The Mercury News cited said that ACORN and other related organizations were dumping large numbers of fraudulent registrations on them late, and it was actually causing their system to break down.
You consistently misrepresent what I’ve said, ignore my cites, refuse to read my actual arguments and respond to arguments you wish I had made instead of the ones I actually made. I have no idea why I waste any time with you. Masochism, I guess.
Does anyone remember the ACORN 8, Anita MonCrief, and the spiked NYT story? They claim the corruption goes to the top levels of ACORN management. It seems to me that someone should look into this before they get another dime of our tax dollars.
I didn’t say there wasn’t a victim or that they weren’t among them - I just said blaming the victim didn’t describe what went on.
Would you call Enron blaming the victim? After all that corporation was used fraudulently and now no longer exists. I don’t think that is an apt description, though, and I don’t think it applies in this case when the founder of the organization and someone so closely associated with it is associated with the cover-up, and his brother is the embezzler.
Sorry.
Very sad that it took these two videos for the census bureau to cut all ties with ACORN. I would have assumed the 400,000 fraudulent voter registrations would have been enough. But, thank goodness they have cut all ties nonetheless.
Well, pretty much everybody involved with law enforcement.
Hey, I’m all for legalized prostitution along the Nevada model for a plethora of reasons, first and foremost the safety of sex workers. As long as it’s illegal, though, any office (particularly one receiving gov’t funding) that shows folks how to get illegal loads to finance prostitution should be taken down.
Sorry, Shodan, but I’m not getting your point. What part of what Lobohan said do you think is false? Are you saying ACORN was not legally barred from destroying what they thought were false registrations? Are you saying ACORN knowingly and deliberately solicited false registrations? Or are you saying that ACORN turned in those false registrations with the deliberate intent of (somehow) getting actual votes out of them?
Wait, okay… IS or IS NOT ACORN funded by public money? I’ve seen conservatives in this very thread say yes, and liberals say no. (Or at least what I interpret as “yes” and “no,” perhaps erroneously.)
Please clarify.
You’re wrong, Sam. ACORN does not pay per registration. See post #136 in this thread.
ACORN was, until today, going to get some money for work with/for the Census. Whether that counts as “funding” is, I suppose, in the eye of the beholder.