Hmmm. You can probably get away with selling it to Jews and atheists. Maybe agnostics, not quite sure…
I’m trying desperately to find it in my heart to feel bad that the right wing (and, consequently, very red states) will be severely undercounted (and underrepresented in Congress) because so many of them are credulous, paranoid idiots, but I’m having SO much trouble managing it…
Okay, so they are a little too helpful.
They could probably use a good organization-wide course on the ethics of social workers.
I can understand that. I’ve done my share of social work and at times I have crossed some lines. I’ve brought gifts to the forced marriages of crying pre-teen brides. I’ve clapped at female-circumcision ceremonies. Of course I find both of these things abhorrent and have spent a lot of time and energy fighting them. But when there is fucked up stuff all around you, sometimes you lose perspective. You spend so much time trying to do good in your context that you lose your ability to step out of that context and say “hey, wait, this stuff is horrific and I need to step outside my role and stop it.” I can understand how that happens, because it’s happened to me.
Maybe there is no excuse for that. Luckily it’s a problem that is easily fixed. I don’t think any of us believe these ACORN employees are rotten to the bone. They are simply misguided. A simple corporate ethics program could easily stop that.
Doesn’t prove much of anything about ACORN as an agency, and certainly doesn’t prove anything Barrack Obama.
The Census Bureau severed ties with ACORN on Friday, effective immediately.
Which is probably why you could search this thread, or indeed my entire posting history, in vain for anything that says this has anything to do with Barack Obama, or indeed that this incident has anything to do with the vote registration business. I know the thread went in that direction, but not because of my OP, and in fact I posted several pages ago asking that we return our attention to this issue at hand,NOT the distraction of the vote business.
Blackwater may have been involved in child prostitution- they should not receive one more taxpayer dime until they are fully investigated.
The US military may have tortured detainees- they should not receive one more taxpayer dime until they are fully investigated.
Are you sure this is the tack you wish to take?
Shit yeah. I’ll throw ACORN under the bus if I can duct-tape Blackwater to them first.
So, ACORN does need to set boundries for their workers better, and by firing these two publicly, it seems they may be doing just that. On the whole though, I don’t think it is a bad idea to have an organization that helps people regardless of context. One of the horrible things about being in a situation outside the law is that there is very little that prevents you from slipping further and further outside.
Advising someone on how to treat their teen prostitutes is pretty horrific, but the advice at least to keep them in school and clean helps to draw them back into society, and keeps them visible so that it is possible at least that if they are injured or killed, it may be noticed. It gives them daily access to adults to whom they could report their circumstance.
Absolutely.
This one is absurd and you know it. Not only is the military an extension of the federal government, but justice is already planning to look into interrogation techniques, etc. It’s also amusing that, when the military is accused of torture or anything else, the first question asked is ‘how far up the chain of command did this order come from?’ But, with ACORN, the left just assumes that this is an individual matter and that the individuals breaking the law were just too idealistic to realize they were doing anything wrong. Laughable.
No, it is born of some familiarity with the organization itself, which one suspects you are innocent of. The US military is, well, military: it has a heirarchical structure with clearly defined chains of command. Orders, policies, and techniques descend from above, the chain of responsibility is rigid and defined.
As well, we have already settled the law on this ourselves. It was we who established the principal of international law that a commander is responsible for the actions of his subordinates even if he is not directly and personally aware of those actions. Ignorance is no defense, if you don’t know what your subordinates are up to, tough shit, you are *supposed *to know. (See Tomoyuki Yamashita - Wikipedia)
Then, of course, there is the additional cute wrinkle that not all who may be culpable are military personnel, there were “contractors” involved, whatever that means.
ACORN is more of an umbrella organization, like many (if not all!) lefty institutions, rigid lines of hierarchy and enforcement are not our thing. We leave that to those who lack our capacity for independent thought and are more comfortable being told what is right.
And, of course, the certain verdict of guilt which you are dependent upon is yet a bit murky, to my gimlet eye. That white boy couldn’t convince your grandmother that he was a pimp, much less a couple of urban black ladies who know one when they see one. Mr O’Keefe shows great promise in the mendacious arts, I see a bright future for him following the path set by the late, great Lee Atwater.
Those so called scandals were right wing noise. They have been pretty clean for a huge organization. Accusing them of voter fraud had been a BRICKER and right wing sport. It has been BS . But screaming at them enough makes people who hear the noise think there must be something behind it. But it is not true.
The repubs have accused them of fraud over and over, but since they lack evidence, the prosecutors have thrown the cases out. Then of course the repubs fired the attorney generals who did not follow dictates and prosecute anyway. It is yet another right wing witch hunt.
Nope, not absurd- and you know it. Just because the military is an extension of the federal government does NOT excuse it from obeying the law. If ACORN, as a whole, is held responsible for the *supposed *actions of two of their employees (out of how many thousands?), then the US Military is responsible for the actions of its enlisted. Remember- the so-called evidence against ACORN was illegally gained… why do you give it such weight?
And you know, it seems to me that you (and the Right in general) IS asking how far up the chain of command ACORN’s supposed actions go. ACORN has already been tried and found guilty in your eyes- on the basis of such little evidence that it would be thrown out of court. There is far more evidence that the US Military has been acting illegally… but because they are the GOP darling, they get a pass. ACORN, though? We don’t need no stinkin’ evidence- string 'em up!
I don’t want to feed the hijack of this thread to talk about voter fraud cases, but neither will I let you post completely untrue claims without comment.
There have been multiple criminal convictions of ACORN workers for voting-related criminal fraud-type crimes.
That’s “conviction” as in “NOT thrown out.”
I find your lack of cites disturbing…
I already cited multiple cases where ACORN workers were convicted of voter registration fraud.
Here’s a fun cite: Acorn Fraud Map
Among the CONVICTIONS listed:
Aside from those actual convictions listed, there are numerous indictments and charges against ACORN employees that are still in the courts.
Here’s another voter registration fraud conviction just a few days ago.
Oh, and look: A DIRECTOR of ACORN was also convicted of fraud:
So… Paying for registrations. Remember when you guys said ACORN doesn’t do that? This guy is now implicating people high up in the ACORN organization. But wait, there’s more:
Yeah, this organization is just clean as a whistle, isn’t it? Who WOULDN’T want it heavily involved in election activities and the census? They’re all just doe-eyed innocent liberals who want the best for everyone.
http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/pol/1332364718.html
(emphasis added to deceive the reader)
Please note: the crime alleged was incentivizing for more registrations, not false registrations.
Wow. Pretty major stuff there, Sam. The guy pulls down a $500 fine and community service, totally huge. Too bad he wasn’t Attorney General, he could have got a Medal of Freedom…
So, you missed this part, huh? Managed to find those cites, couldn’t find this one? Gee, I just Googled Amy Busefink, and there it was. Don’t know how it escaped your notice.
I just wanted to say, none of the text you “quoted” is from the link you provided.
Is that fraud?
:dubious:
Nowhere in that article about Rosie Lyles does it mention ACORN.
Some people would say this shows a pattern of fraud in your posts about ACORN’s alleged fraud.
Huh. I figured it was just left out of the article–but another more in-depth article I found when googling the name also didn’t turn up any ACORN connection.
Sam, I hope you show up either to apologize unreservedly for including that link, or to explain why you included it. It kinda calls your other evidence into question.
http://www.abc3340.com/news/stories/0909/655463.html
Oh, sure, its only one vote registration in one country of South Carolina, but what if there was one of those in every county in America! Thousands, I tell you, thousands!
The full weight of her sentence, which might be offered on a charge of shoplifting, is richly deserved! And don’t even think of trying to distract us with stories about US Attorney’s being pressured to file bogus voter fraud charges to embarass Democratic candidates, this is about the dreadful threat of ACORN, and we will not be distracted by trivialities! No sir!