Was anyone presenting that as factual? I guess I missed that. How do you propose they prove it?They weren’t secretly video taping anyone. Since they are the ones being accused I tend to agree that they don’t have to prove anything. The statements of their people should be enough to require proof from those making the accusations.
Let’s also consider the source. Fox has a history of this type of select editing to create an impression. Anything they run like that deserves automatic skepticism because of their history. From there we have several details that add to the suspicion that it’s BS.
I’d like to see ACORN with the help of some decent reporting fight back and show this guy as a liar if they can but I doubt they are equipped to fight this kind of attack aggressively. A good investigative reporter should be able by interviewing the workers he talked to and those that threw him out. Just an article indicating it’s a con would pressure him and Fox to prove it. The problem is the damage is already done to some extent so Fox doesn’t have to prove anything or back up their accusations. There are plenty of people who are eager to believe something bad about ACORN so just getting the story out there and creating the impression false or not , seems to be enough.
As I said before; I know it’s very possible in any large organization to have some bad employees who display really bad judgment. That doesn’t mean they were seriously trying to help this guy set up his prostitution business with underage girls. It just smells really fishy to me and until the tapes come out I give the benefit of the doubt to the accused.
They tried like hell to find ACORN guilty of some kind of voter fraud and couldn’t. Were mistakes made? Yes. Were they guilty of what they were being accused of. No.
Problem one: ACORN doesn’t have any money. Common problem amongst the achingly sincere left, they never have any money. ACORN gets money, yeah, but they are primarily a means of getting and disbursing grants, they don’t get a profit. The real pros in the media rackets are, to a large degree, whores. Where does ACORN get the money?
You want to know how dumb these people are? If you gave them a wad of cash, and told them they could spend it on a fancy lawyer or PR firm to defend themselves, or they could spend it on another voter registration drive, they’d spend it on the drive. That’s how dumb these people are.
Problem the second: their enemies are ferociously committed, their friends and allies don’t think they are very important. And they probably aren’t. If they dissolve, another coalition and clearing house will take up the slack, nature abhors a vacuum, politics will fill one quicker. Oddly, the people who hate them wildly exaggerate their importance, their expected allies mostly shrug.
You’re probably right. The thing I see is that it’s time for the left {and those on the right who want a reasonably honest debate } to go after those who willingly spread lies for political gain. It’s time for the voters to see how this damages our society and our chances of real solutions to problems. That’s why standing up for Van Jones, and ACORN might be the right approach.
Strictly as a question of tatics? Realpolitik? Like Carville and Buchanan think? Then probably not.
ACORN is already stained in the public mind, it ain’t fair, it ain’t right, but you can fool all of the people once in a while. Shit happens. But the people and organizations that make up ACORN won’t simply wither away. And the strategy of voter registration and community organizing ain’t going anywhere either. We need what ACORN is, but that isn’t the same as needing ACORN itself.
Me, if I were Commissar for Strategery, I’d hunker down, bide my time, and wait for one of them to step on his dick. ACORN cost a lot of political poker chips, I think Joe Wilson pretty much gave them back. They’re running a bit frantic, they’ll do it again.
Seems to me that if the Forces of Darkness truly believed they had they pure-D number one kosher goods, no force on Earth could stop them from releasing the unedited tapes. If they could pass scrupulous inspection, you could threaten them with murder, mayhem, and lawyers, and they would still release them, if only to milk if for another day or two.
One could argue that it doesn’t matter. The initial story has been firmly implanted, and even if every inch of footage were declared fake tomorrow, there would still be references on some blogs from now until doomsday about what “happened” in 2009.
I see this everywhere, on every side of the aisle, on matters ranging from political to completely mundane. Whether it’s done deliberately or it just happens varies.
You may be right. I’m thinking if this isn’t exposed and the pattern of lies isn’t exposed it will all resurface in 2010 and 2012. They need to be actively working to expose the lies and the pattern so the voters are upset at that kind of tactic. We need OUTFOXED II and one about Beck called False Prophet.
The reference “Vinny” is to Vinyl Turnip, well known as a drive-by poster, snark enthusiast and general nogoodnik. He posted an early picture of Dudley Dumbfuck in his pimp costume, upstream. You could also get there by googling James O’Keefe.
Oh, great. Another thread hijacked into being all about Vinyl Turnip.
(Actually, I’m kind of amazed. Here we are on page 12, and the thread is still exactly on the focus of the OP. We don’t do that very often around here.)
I felt the same way. Why would anyone take this guy seriously as pimp? Still, if all the ACORN employees were just playing along why haven’t we heard their side of it. Are they pissed because they got fired? Why aren’t they defending themselves if not ACORN.
My guess is there is damning stuff all mixed and jumbled in with non-damning stuff. The full film isn’t being released because it mitigates the edited film, but the ACORN workers aren’t coming forward because they DID do wrong stuff.
Given a history of unspeakably bad puns, the clearest possible mark of moral bankruptcy and intellectual depravity, I was thinking lawyer. But perhaps I am too harsh.
