ACORN workers caught on tape apparently advising on child prostitution

Great Debates
741

Nothing that complicated. Look at the start of this video, at about 0.18-0.20. (apologies for posting the odious things)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UOL9Jh61S8&feature=related

What do you see? A man in a shirt and slacks (who looks an awful lot like O’keefe), and a woman in revealing clothing (looking a lot like Giles) walking into a office. Pimp outfit? No.

Then, at about 1.15, you see O’keefe, in a pimp outfit, near a car–and then walking down a street. with giles in her outfit ACORN office? No.

It seems pretty obvious what happened–O’keefe goes into an ACORN office in shirt and slacks, and then comes out, shoots a couple of scenes nearby in the “pimp outfit,” and claims he was wearing it all along. Not even high-grade bullshit.

The scene of him walking into an office dressed as a college student seems pretty conclusive. If you don’t think that’s enough, the absolute lack of any video where you see both (1) pimp outfit, and (2) ACORN office at the same time is to me, damning–I just don’t see any proof at all he was in the “pimp outfit” in the ACORN offices, and the sequence at the start of the video seems to clearly show he went to at least one office dressed as a college student.

Add to that the fact that O’keefe edited in scenes later to make it look like he was dressed in the “pimp outfit” all along, and what you have is a good reason to doubt anything they say. As Amarinth says, this doesn’t mean the ACORN workers were perfect, or did the right thing–but it leads me to call bullshit on O’Keefe’s account.

To put it another way, I’d second what Diogenes says–I have trouble believing anything these guys say, given the evidence that something has been tampered with or misrepresented in the videos—the whole point of tampering with the video is to conceal what actually happened. It’s not just that you can only identify some questionable parts–but that the fact that such tampering exists makes me skeptical of the accuracy of the remainder as accurate reflections of what went on in the offices. That’s the point of the selective editing.

If ACORN is really as bad as they say, it’ll come out in the unedited video—and I couldn’t imagine any reason for them not to release it. On the other hand, if ACORN was made to look worse through manipulation of the video and editing, there is a very good reason not to release the whole thing. Given that O’keefe and company have strenuously refused to show the full, unedited video, and given that the editing on the released videos is questionable at best, I can only infer that there is something on the unedited videos that repudiates their story.

742

Really? Everything else they did was pretty inept.

743

We should also mention that even if the whole video were true it would still be like two fry cooks smoking crystal meth in the walk in freezer at McDonalds. What exactly does that have to do with overarching McDonalds policy and election fraud again?

That two employees may have, maybe, said (not done) something shady isn’t a sign that the organization is corrupt. It’s not like ACORN has a directive telling its employees to assist in prostitution.

744

You’re slightly off base…The equivalent would be if the fry cooks were instructing customers how to sell meth from the walk-in freezer.

745

Not in the least.

1st: The people involved weren’t following ACORN’s directives.
2nd: The tape’s veracity is in question, so #1 may not even be an issue.

It isn’t by any sane reasoning the equivalent of a business using its facilities for a crime. I’m sure you really, really want this to be sinister, but c’mon.

746

An expensive lesson learned. Costly, the ACORN name is totally smirched, when the Forces of Darkness set out to besmirch, they have no rivals, they have a gift for lying like a nightingale for singing.

But they taught us something very important. At first, I had trouble figuring it out, having some experience with ACORN. Why were they so anxious and eager to bring down these feckless idealists who drive used Volvos and wear Goodwill suits?

Because they were effective. Because the Tom Joad/Saul Alinsky, old fashioned neighborhood by neighborhood method works. The other guys were feeling the pain of accumulated organizing, a little here, a little there. “Don’t agonize, organize.” Amen, brother.

Don’t waste time trying to lead the people, empower the people, and they will lead themselves. No, they are not all that educated, but a lot more than they used to be. It doesn’t matter, the important things we have to say don’t require subtle and complex analysis. The Dark Side doesn’t rely on subtlety, they tell big, bald lies. Why wouldn’t big, bald truths work as well? Don’t try to lead the people, empower them and get out of their way.

The Tighty Righties went after ACORN because they were feeling the hurt, the paltry few thousands that ACORN scored in every district was being felt in the close races. Why go after such puny targets as ACORN? Because ACORN was making them bleed.

The expensive lesson can be a big gift if you pay attention. The slogging, door to door, one on one, tiresome, boring approach works. Sorry, Mr. Alinsky. Mr Alinsky, sir! You were right and it took our enemies to teach us so. Now, if you’ll excuse, I got a CD of Woody Guthrie tunes it would do me some good to listen to…

747

They were performing services as ACORN representatives

To which of the tapes are you referring? I think it evident that there was an oft repeated pattern of conduct. But in true liberal fashion, shoot the messenger - care not about the message

Now the latest news…ACORN performs it’s own internal audit and wants the controllers of additional government funding to believe they now have credibility…:rolleyes:

748

Um, did you miss the whole ‘The videos are doctored bullshit’ memo? Cuz if you did, then it needs to be said again: the videos are doctored bullshit. The only repeated pattern of conduct here was the right wing smear campaign at work trying to destroy something they hate.

ACORN has only lost credibility because groups that don’t like what they do have lied about them. In other words, they’ve only lost credibility to those who believe the lies.

749

Again, because you seem to be too blinded by ideological fury to think clearly, the workers, if they did something wrong weren’t doing what ACORN hired them to do. You are swinging at illusions because you desperately want there to be some substance to them. It’s kida sad.

Show me. As I recall, the conservative filmmaker went from ACORN office to ACORN office trying to find something to scream “Gotcha!” about.

Is that true liberal fashion? Is it true conservative fashion to whine like a child about phantoms and made-up controversies? Is that the game we’re playing? There are smart conservatives. But this isn’t a cause that resonates with them, because the evidence isn’t there. Only irrational ideologues are beating this drum.

Show me how other similar organizations perform their audits and what the relevant laws and regulations are. Or retract that statement as unfounded. Kay?

750

To answer your real questions: Yes, you should continue to believe them even though they are proven to be false, because it is politically expedient for you to do so.

751

I certainly can’t go with inept and incompetent. The masterful use of disguise, for instance, totally transforming a pasty white boy into an urban pimp.

752

That costume was the first thing that made me think the whole thing was fishy. There’s no way in hell that anyone in an ACORN office would actually buy that clown as genuine.

753

I didn’t have the “that’s fishy” reaction, mine was the rolling around on the floor pointing and laughing reaction…

754

And if the fry cook at McDonald’s spits on your burger before putting it in the bun, he’s performing services as the representative of McDonald’s Corp. But that doesn’t mean he’s carrying out the policies of McDonald’s Corp., or that McDonald’s encourages or even remotely condones such actions on the part of its employees.

So that’s pretty much a bullshit line.

755

They also ddn’t perform any services.

756

But isn’t McDonald’s still responsible for their actions? (Serious question)

757

Sure, in that they’ll fire that employee, try to prevent it from happening in the future, and probably get sued (and most likely, settle out of court).

McDonalds wouldn’t be shut down, though, because there’s no reason to believe that spitting in hamburgers is a corporate policy.

758

ACORN did not just register Dem voters. They registered whoever filled out the sheet. You do not know who they vote for. Since they generally work in poor neighborhoods, they are more likely to register Dem voters. But that is a statistical probability, not a fact.
That probability was enough for the Repubs to try and stop them. They constantly railed at them ,hoping if they screamed enough, they could create the illusion that ACORN was doing something wrong and make it acceptable to stop them. This set up by the white kids badly posing as a pimp and hooker is a joke. the ACORN workers went along with it but whether they were having fun is unproven. But they did not file any illegal paperwork. Do you really think they believed that those posers were actually involved in prostitution? This is such a joke.

759

Acorn should just change their name. I think Blackwater is available. That would really confuse the average Fox viewer.

760

No, that would just confuse them a little. To really confuse them, ACORN should change their name to Fogsnooze.