Well I think the man finally got it wrong. he said the word abaracadabra was of early Christian origin. Actually oh wise one, the word comes from ancient Hebrew and I think but I am not postive it is mention somewhere in the Bible. the word consist of the combination of the the two Hebrew words “abra” and “cadabra”. Abra meaning in Hebrew “I will create” cadabara meaning “as she said” it could be originally cadaber which “as he said” or caadaber which mean “as I said” anyway either way the whole saying means “I will create as she said” as was used I think before socerey. anyway I just wanted to clear that up
Abba Cadaver = band name!
Oh, and here’s the column to which the OP refers:
What’s the origin of “abracadabra,” “hocus-pocus,” and “presto”?
Could you verify that for us? Is it or is it not mentioned in the Bible, and if so, where?
What is the Hebrew spelling of those two words?
Sorry, but it wasn’t Hebrew originally. And it certainly isn’t in the Bible.
It takes a great deal of stretching and mispronouncing to get to the story that you’ve heard. That version floats around the internet a lot, but it is hogwash. In the Middle Ages, after the word had been created, Jewish mystics adapted and adopted it, but that’s all ex post facto.
In any case, lez99, welcome to the Straight Dope Message Boards, glad to have you with us.
Hey ok first the mentioning of the word in the Bible like I said is not certain and I would be willing to concede that fact that it very well might not appear. However the Hebrew spelling of the words that I said were ‘abra’ - Aleph, Bet, Reish, Aleph and for the word Cadabara - Caph, Daled, Bet, Reish, Heh.
OK now to the person who was skeptical about my answer C K, even if you were right that wasn’t the answer that Cecil gave so anyway he was wrong. But to answer you, you don’t need to pronounce it any differently from the way it is spelled in order to get to my explantion as I wrote. The Oxford dictionary credits the word to Latin formally Greek however, knowing that the Oxford dictionary cringes anytime they have to credit the Jews with anything I find this unreliable but it still proves that word was in use way before the Middle ages. sorry mate try again
If you’re not goona speak English, ** lez999 ** , we can’t understand you.
No…Abra Cadaver–Power Puff Girls Villian’s name.
If you read what Dex wrote a little more closely, you’ll see that he said “In the Middle Ages, after the word had been created, Jewish mystics adapted and adopted it, but that’s all ex post facto. [italics mine]” Since both Cecil and the OED refer to the origin of the word “abracadabra”, and Dex is quite clearly referring to events which take place after the creation of the word, I see no conflict among the three.
If i am not going to speak English?? as far as I know every single word of what i said was in correct English spelling however, Mr. Bosda, the word ‘goona’ does not appear in the English dictionary so i think you should be the one checking your English:cool:
Well Zut, I had noticed what he said and I know that he said after the word was created however the text in which he wrote it implied that is was created a short time before the Jewish Kabbalist adopted it. Anyway assume that he meant centuries before he still would need to answer my reply about the saying and spelling of the word
Chalk up one “whoosh”.
No, as a matter of fact, you misspelled at least two words (“postive” and “socerey”). In addition, your grammar is weak, and your punctuation is dreadful.
No, “after” does not mean “shortly after”.
When making public accusations of infamous behavior, it is customary to offer evidence.
Seeing that the OED says the word is first attested in the second century A.D., and Cecil says the word is first attested in the second century A.D., I fail to see what you think you’ve established.
Oh I am sorry Mr Kennedy I didn’t realise I was composing an English essay. It was a short note and I didn’t not check for typing mistakes, I am sorry if you need full stops and commas in order to understand a message on the board I thought it was casual here, but then again I guess you are American, they never could speak English well. From now on I will punctuate in order that you understand. I have one question though, why are you called John W. Kennedy? are you related to the Kennedys? or you just like to hide behind someone elses name? with all due respect and no offense meant to be taken. It is all in good heart.
[QUOTEWhen making public accusations of infamous behavior, it is customary to offer evidence.
You want proof?? ok fine take the word Camal for example, originated from the Hebrew word ‘Gamal’ used numerous times in the Bible in ancient Hebrew. The OED credits the word to Greek and in the last line in a ‘by the way’ manner, it states that it also may have come from Semitic origin, not Hebrew but Semitic. If you like, I can quote a number of other examples.
lez999, you should stop with the personal attacks right now. The discussion should remain focussed on the issues and not the person.
Other posters, including you, John W. Kennedy, should refrain from responding in kind. Discuss the topic without personal attacks.
I do apologise like I said I did not mean it offensively and it was all in good heart and meant to be taken lightly and I am pretty sure he attacked me personally first but anyway it was meant in jest.
Unfortunately, an unsupported statement does not constitute proof. How does this prove that the English word “camel” (I assume, yes?) originated from ancient Hebrew? You simply assume so. Why is it implausible for the word to have entered both Greek and Hebrew from some earlier Semitic language? More tellingly, how does this anecdote prove that the “Oxford dictionary cringes anytime they have to credit the Jews with anything”?
All you’ve done so far is offer an alternative explanation for the origin of “camel.” An explanation unsupported by evidence, I might add. If you wish to accuse the OED of anti-Jewish behavior, you should make a little better case than that.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by zut *
Why is it implausible for the word to have entered both Greek and Hebrew from some earlier Semitic language? QUOTE]
Why?? because Hebrew is the oldet language known to man it is simply impossible for Hebrew to have adopted the word from an earlier language, and even if it was possible it is certain that the OED does not know that. Unfortunately English intelectuals are notorious for there anti-Semitism and the OED as far as I can see is no different. The Jews, according to the world, are excess baggage. But I will bring you substancial proof.
I’m rather skeptical of that claim. Hebrew is older than Egyptian? Chinese? Sumerian? Un-named proto-languages? Some citation backing up this claim would be nice.
In any case, as this guy says,
No offense, but in matters of linguistics, I’m more apt to believe a professional linguist than someone making unsupported claims on an anonymous message board.
Haha, ok fair enough that you would prefer a professional over me but like he said we virtually know nothing about the original form of human language, so here is some proof.
G.R. Sampson, Professor of Natural Language Computing states and I quote
“I’m afraid
it definitely wasn’t Hebrew; Hebrew script was a version of the Semitic
alphabet which is less old than Egyptian hieroglyphic writing…” Implying then that yes languages existed before hebrew but none were based on an alphabet of letters. Hebrew was the first alphabetised language and therefore her words could not have been based on a previous language.