"Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine Day" is stupid and racist

The BBQ Pit
1

In fact, it’sone of the most blatantly anti-asian pieces of racism I’ve seen in a long time. No, not because of the word “Oriental”. Rather, it’s stupid and racist because it helps prop up a BS dichotomy between “Eastern” medicine and “Western” medicine. You know the picture people try to paint - the natural, mysterious, non-invasive, side-effect free treatments of the far east vs. the grimy, nasty, invasive western medicine with countless side-effects and issues.

The reason this dichotomy is bullshit is because “western medicine” has absolutely taken over the east as well. Hmm, I wonder why? See, here’s the thing about “Oriental” medicine; in particular, “Traditional Chinese Medicine”, acupuncture, and the like: it doesn’t fucking work. Acupuncture, Reiki, many of the touted herbal treatments, and most of what you find in traditional oriental medicine is complete woo. And it’s not like everyone in the far east sucks at practising medicine - indeed, you see the shit that *does *work there quite a lot. But if you look at this, you could easily get the implication that Asians never came out of the fucking medical dark age.

Even if you spin this the way these hucksters want you to, it’s still racist in a particularly nasty way, painting Asians as this wise group of people with an ancient culture that we with our nasty modern medicine could never come close to. So I guess they’re probably not intentionally trying to paint Asians as scientifically illiterate - just us westerners who are blinded by our scientific understanding of the world. They’re just dishonest or ignorant shitbags. Fuck 'em.

2

Mine and millions of other lives have been saved by an ancient Chinese anti-malarial. I agree that the idea of a strict divide is not a helpful one, but neither is the idea that it’s all complete garbage unworthy of comment. Before the scientific method, everyone was taking shots in the dark and making prodigious use of the placebo effect. We have found a more effective (but still often flawed) way.

I guess my point is that at the least, Chinese medicine is an important part of medical history. And as a fan of Chinese massage, it’s one that gives me comfort and relief even if it doesn’t cure cancer.

3

Herbs can work as medicine, need a pick me up? Chew on some coca leaves, or what about opium or marijuana? Tobacco, coffee, no one is going to argue that those herbs aren’t having an effect.

I will admit some Chinese herb practices are way suspect, mixing up custom blends based on what organs or parts of your body are ailing you today or on astrology. I’m guessing the main benefit here isn’t the herbal mixture, but the placebo effect from someone important listening intently to your complaints and then creating a custom medicine just for you. It would probably have the same efficacy as custom mixing different color sugar together.

4

Which of course has nothing to do with acupuncture, reiki and other woo. Pharmacognosy is applicable to many different cultures.

Interestingly, artemisinin (a plant-derived malaria treatment) had limited applicability against the disease due to poor solubility, until modern researchers in China and elsewhere developed more effective forms of it (in other words, using evil We$tern scientific methods).

5

My point exactly. Far too much of what gets peddled as traditional oriental medicine is complete crap. The bits that aren’t crap we know aren’t crap because of the methodology that those disparaging “western” medicine would throw out altogether. It’s not all complete garbage. The problem is that the people pushing this stupid holiday are unwilling to filter out the garbage, and end up painting the entirety of “eastern” medicine (as though there were some significant difference between the medical practices which work in the west and the east!) as asinine and full of woo.

6

Holy fuck. There’s a day for everything.

7

In fact, Nov 15th is “there’s a day for everything” day.

8

Well, almost. My parents went with the “every day is Kid’s Day” line, but I always thought it was bullshit. :mad:

9

Well according to this study, traditional Thai and Swedish massage are equally effective. Maybe ancient Swedish remedies are the way to go.

10

Would you have a problem with Oriental Massage Day?

11

Depends on how it ended.

12

Happily, I’m sure. :slight_smile:

13

Here’s a query for you: If western medicine has absolutely taken over the East, what’s with all the TCM hospitals I see whenever I take the bus to downtown here in Beijing; what’s with all the TCM hospitals, many of them attached to western medicine hospitals I saw in Seoul, Daegu, Busan, and other cities in Korea? Granted, I along with a good number of local nationals I know here agree with you that so much of TCM is just malarkey, but that doesn’t mean it’s gone.

14

Never said it was gone. I just said that western medicine was all over the place.

15

You said it had absolutely taken over. That’s directly contradicted by actual evidence; to wit, the presence of quite a lot of TCM hospitals all over the place in Asia and even by the existence of a TCM school in California.

But, hey, if you want to use “absolutely” to mean something different than the rest of us do, go for it. But, may I suggest you let your reader know in advance.

16

My wording was off. I meant to imply that western medicine was widely ubiquitous in eastern Asia. Obviously, you’ll find TCM there. Christ, you find TCM all over the place here, and we’re not even from China.

…Of course, a large part of the point I’m making is that this stupid dichotomy is stupid. And racist. “Western” medicine is nothing of the sort - it’s simply science-based medicine that can be demonstrated to work, and most traditional eastern medicine (like much of “traditional” western medicine!) is pure bunk.

17

I’ll go you one better: a lot of medicine in the modern science-based tradition, as currently practiced, is bunk too.

Face it, patient treatment is not an exact science, and almost everybody has had the experience of going to a doctor with a complaint that the doctor tried to fix but couldn’t, or that the doctor said was something that it wasn’t.

That doesn’t in any way scientifically discredit rigorous experimental research in medicine, of course. But most people don’t actually encounter rigorous experimental research in medicine. What they encounter is just doctors who sometimes can fix what’s ailing them and sometimes can’t.

And if they find some kind of “alternative therapy” that somehow manages to combine diet or lifestyle changes, physical comforting, emotional support, placebo effect, natural healing processes and just plain luck into an actual decrease in their suffering, well, it’s only to be expected that they’ll believe that “alternative therapy” has value.

Personally, the hill I’d prefer to die on in this cause is not utter repudiation of “alternative therapies” but rather awareness of the distinction between folklore and actual science as a basis for a treatment regimen.

If somebody says of acupuncture or herbal remedies (which are in fact considered part of TCM, so trying to make a clear distinction between TCM “woo” and valid pharmacognostic folk knowledge is specious), “Oh well, I know it’s not research-based but it makes me feel better when I do it”, I don’t think it’s worth fuming over their “dark age” outlook. It’s when people don’t even know what makes a treatment scientifically supported that I worry about their making dumb choices.

18

There are so many misconceptions in Kimstu’s post, it’s hard to know where to start.

What on earth does this have to do with the validity of science/evidence-based medicine?

If someone’s complaint/disease isn’t amenable to treatment by one doctor (or by subsequent physicians), that means we can disregard the standard of care for that ailment? “Well, Mrs. T’s still experiencing diarrhea after her initial workup and medication, so it’s time to call in the [del]witch doctor[/del] naturopath.”

Apparently you are unaware of the important role that all of these factors* have in evidence-based care.

I highly doubt (to cite one instance among many) that you could see a physician about persistent gastrointestinal reflux without being counseled on diet and lifestyle preventative measures, including weight loss, alcohol restriction, timing of meals, head of bed elevation and so on). While alt med promoters have tried to claim that they corner the market on diet/lifestyle/“holistic” care, it’s nonsense.

What’s key here is distinguishing between the woo aspects of the vast majority of TCM and the relatively few plant-based remedies which have at least preliminary evidence of value. I can certainly distinguish between artemesinin as a valid malaria remedy on the one hand, as contrasted to grinding up parts of deceased ancestors or endangered animals (which also are part of TCM).

I don’t know that I’d go so far as the OP to call Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine Day racist, though I bet the assumption that Chinese medicine is primarily woo annoys the crap out of science-based practitioners and researchers in China (like the ones who took the trouble to research and test improved versions of artemisia-based malaria treatments). The fact remains that despite the body of mystical TCM knowledge built up over eons, there has been a major shift in China towards evidence-based modern medical care, with all the benefits (and sometimes problems) that entails.

UPDATE: Just in time for AOM Day - acupuncture with holograms!!

*deliberately prescribing placebos without properly informing the patient is not considered ethical in evidence-based medical practice. As to whether alt med practitioners prescribe remedies knowing full well they are ineffective except for possible placebo benefit, that may well happen, but in most instances they probably believe their nostrums work despite the lack of evidence for them.

19

Good point. Science is even bringing leeches back! I’m certain there must have been at least one person who was comforted by cupping, bloodletting, gay conversion therapy, or the “rest cure” for “hysteria”. Who are we to judge these important parts of Western medical history?

20

Have you tards been smoking too much Traditional Chinese Medicine? Acupuncture is not “woo”. In fact calling it “woo” is practically hate speech. I mean just look at the name the word “accurate” is in it. If you want to stick a bunch of pins in your skin then acupunture is the absolute best treatment.