Heh the first thing I thought when I read the thread title was, “What did Pacman do now?”
Delgado was not traded from Toronto; he left as a free agent.
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As it pertains to American black athletes (isolated for clarity, since you thought that Carlos Delgado was pertinent to the discussion), when you consider that MLB has the strongest player’s unions in American sports, and ridiculous guaranteed contracts, with a much lower injury risk, relative to the NFL and the NBA, there has to be something that is causing young black athletes to feel discouraged from pursuing baseball.
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They’re playing basketball and football, because those sports are more available to them. Really, to some 17-year-old kid weighing what sport he wants to play I sincerely doubt the nature of organized labor in pro sports is something they care much about. African-American players still make up a good percentage of MLB players, but American players as a whole - white and black - are a smaller percentage than they once were, as foreign players are more common.
I suspect that you and I don’t have the same notion of a “good” percentage: I wonder how many Major League teams have three black American players?
Baseball hasn’t become any less available to American black kids than it was twenty-five years ago, certainly not if you believe MLB. We’ve stopped playing and watching baseball for reasons that have little if anything to do with availability.
The OP poisons the well before the discussion can even get started, and in so doing makes Jones’s point for him.
Adam Jones’s point, and it is a very good point, is that a black player can be marginalized and eventually ousted from baseball if he holds beliefs like Kaepernick’s, because he has fewer fellow players to stand with him in solidarity and because the fan base is disinclined to actually listen to what he has to say.
You know, kind of like the OP did.
There is not a doubt in my mind that black baseball players aren’t treated the same way white ones are, in a lot of ways. I could cite examples until I ran out of time to type.
But your specific claim that a baseball player, if black, **would be ousted from baseball **(where a white one would not) for holding the wrong political beliefs is a claim that screams out for some sort of evidentiary basis.
Absent any evidence to the contrary, here’s my theory; if a guy can hit and catch, the ability of MLB teams to overlook transgressions is nearly limitless. 30 homers will trump any nuisance-level political stance, and that’s really what Kaepernick’s thing is; it’s a small little statement people blow up because the NFL has a weird, militaristic patriotism element to its marketing. If Adam Jones wants to sit down for the anthem, he as a Gold Glove center fielder who hits year in and year out is going to continue to find steady work in Major League Baseball.
I didn’t say would, I said “could.”
And it’s not about Jones, it’s about solidarity. Jones will get a “pass,” for lack of a better term, because he’s a great player. The problem is that there is no one in baseball or within the fan base to stand up for Joe Jones, the guy with the 0 WAR.
So in football, Joe Jones has people on his team to stand with him and fans that understand him. The value of his message is not connected to his value as a player.
This is not so in baseball.
Tony LaRussa just did an interview on The Dan LeBatard Show that is slightly relevant to this topic.
As I understand it, the reason why black youths are so specifically drawn to basketball is just a matter of real estate. Blacks in America disproportionately live in high-population-density areas where there usually just isn’t room for a baseball, football, or soccer field, but you can play basketball in a much smaller space, and practice basic skills in a smaller space yet, anywhere you can find room to attach a backboard and hoop.
But again I ask for examples. Colin Kaepernick is not the football equivalent of a replacement level player, he’s the football equivalent of Adam Jones.
What black baseball players have taken a political stance of this sort and been ousted from baseball where a white player, of equal value and taking a similar stance, was not? Conversely, is there an example of a run of the mill black NFL player who took an unpopular political stance but was not cut because his teammates stood up for him?
It is certainly conceivable Jones could be correct, but no evidence has been presented to show it.
Maybe I’m not being as clear as I think I’m being.
First, re: evidence of black baseball players taking stands: Jones is talking about a chilling effect, which means that average players will NOT stand up for fear of being cut. That fear, in addition to the statistical paucity of black players in baseball (and average black players in baseball), means that there is less opportunity for a black player to stand up, and fewer black players to stand with him. I myself have no access to baseball locker rooms, so I’m inclined to take Jones at his word.
Second, re: black football players: Dolphins players Jelani Jenkins was a fourth-rounder, and Michael Thomas went undrafted, so when they knelt for the anthem, it could have been a career-altering move for them. And when the Seahawks locked arms, it was in no small part because most of them are black and therefore the issue is more pressing in their locker room that it is in the Orioles’. Who would be there to lock arms with Adam Jones or create a locker room culture where the racial injustices at issue in these protests are a significant topic of conversation?
Kaepernick is a backup QB. He’s not the football equivalent of Adam Jones. He’s not necessarily a replacement level player equivalent, but he’s probably closer to that than Adam Jones.
Anyways, I think that Jones has the fear that he may be retaliated because he doesn’t have as much black support in baseball speaks to something. When discussing white privilege folks normally talk about things that most white folks have little anxiety about but are terrifying for most black folks (like traffic stops) - so Jones’ fear may not necessarily be paranoid, but based on what his experiences have told him how far he can and cannot go.
I kind of figured someone would pick at me for that. Yes, I understand Kaepernick’s star has fallen since a few years ago, but he’s not a scrub.
Yeah, he kind of is. He may never start another game in his life.
You’d hope Adam Jones understands the general climate of MLB better than me, but I just can’t see how black players would get kicked out of baseball. And that is what he said would happen.
“We already have two strikes against us, so you might as well not kick yourself out of the game."
I think that statement is absurd. If a black player sat out the national anthem, he’d probably get a lot of backlash, much like Kaepernick is. But kicked out of MLB? I don’t believe that Jones actually believes that.
A white, female US soccer player has been kneeling during the anthem and guess what, backlash! Ire! And she might even be sanctioned by US Soccer.
Baseball purists care a hell of a lot more about gambling or steroids that they do political statements.
Being a “distraction in the clubhouse” is the fastest way for a marginal player to be replaced. And if you’re the only black guy in your clubhouse, then a stand for social justice is going to make you a distraction.
Megan Rapinoe is a lesbian, which is why she knelt in solidarity for the anthem, and what did Jill Kelly label it? A “distraction” from Heather O’Reilly’s final game. They trot this language out because I cannot see how the United States National Team could sanction a player for free expression.
It’s not what baseball purists care about, it’s what team owners don’t want taking away from their corporate goodwill, or ticket/merch/concession sales. Kaepernick’s jersey sales go up because football’s fanbase looks more like him than baseball’s does like Jones.
…because you have to buy it to burn it.
So, what Adam Jones is basically saying is that he wants to emulate Kaepernick except for the whole " If they take football away, my endorsements from me, I know that I stood up for what is right." part. Link.
Got it.
Slee
You are also poisoning the well. Jones was asked why there are no protests in baseball similar to those currently occurring in football. And he gave an answer, an appropriate answer- because the environment in baseball would be less receptive than the environment in football given the statistical paucity of blacks in baseball.
Jones made no reference to what his own beliefs regarding the anthem, or his own personal desire to protest. He answered a question about environments.
To pretend that makes him cowardly has no basis in fact.
I wouldn’t say “statistical paucity”, as that implies under-representation, which isn’t the case at all- if anything, MLB is the most racially representative major sport out there.
And that was ultimately what my question was about- was it Jones being butthurt about some perceived (and erroneous) lack of blacks in baseball, or was it just a matter-of-fact statement that Kaepernick’s behavior wouldn’t fly in baseball because blacks aren’t overrepresented like they are in football or basketball, where they make up some 70% of the players or more.
So, the systematic disadvantages of minority status are present for blacks in baseball as well? I mean, you phrased it a little differently (black players in the NFL enjoy the systematic advantages that come with being a majority, while black players in MLB don’t), but it seems to me like you’re making Jones’ point for him.