I agree, and I should have expressed myself differently. I think the approach that should be taken totally depends on the nature and severity of symptoms. A kid who is fidgety and unfocused and impulsive at levels high enough to be of concern, but their grades are okay and they are pretty happy? Let’s jigger with the environment and come up with some behaviorial techniques before we start swallowing pills, since the problem is not urgent and medication typically does wage some kind of cost. But if a kid is having such a hard time in school and at home that they are driving everyone and themselves nuts? I am all for a no-holds-barred approach. I wouldn’t judge a family harshly for taking a no-holds-barred approach for mild ADHD as long as they don’t put all their eggs in the medication basket.
Magiver, I’m guessing from your saying everyone knew their neighbors and that 100% of kids graduated rate that you went to a small school in a small town. If the same 25 kids were in your grade every year, it’s possible none of them had ADHD, and you wouldn’t have noticed any ADD kids, whose inability to pay attention didn’t involve misbehavior. The latter may have graduated but had a much lower GPA than they would have had if they’d been diagnosed and helped, with or without meds .
I’m your age and went to big schools. I couldn’t tell you what the graduation rate was because in a class of 1,000 students, I wouldn’t have known all who didn’t graduate. I, too, knew plenty of kids who got paddled or smacked with a pointer for misbehavior. Some settled down and didn’t get in trouble again for a long time; some settled down but were off-task after a short time (highly distractible, fidgeting) but not enough to get in trouble, and some repeatedly got in trouble. Some kids in the latter two groups may have had ADHD.
Yes, the thread is about overmedicating kids, but if you’re saying a good paddling works as well as medication, your limited experience isn’t sufficient, and you have a lot to learn about ADD and ADHD. No shame in that, and it’s easily remedied.
Bore easily isn’t the issue, Nava. The issue is that her brain cannot - cannot - process information in a linear fashion without medication the way you or I can. Think about how difficult that makes math once you get beyond the simple stuff. And all of the interventions we were trying were to help her do something she couldn’t do - and wasn’t - despite what her teachers though - something she was going to grow out of. If you are paralyzed from the waist down, all the physical therapy in the world is not going to get you walking again.
Again, so what? Chemotherapy drugs are poison. Ketamine is a powerful tranquilizer, but it is showing promising results in treating depression and PTSD. Nicotine is a pesticide. Of course drugs are something. If they weren’t, what would be the point? As has been said, the effects of amphetamines can be different depending on the dose and the individual. Sometimes there might be unwanted side effects, and the patient doesn’t tolerate the medication, so maybe a different treatment is appropriate.
Are they being handed out like candy? First, I don’t think schools are in the practice of handing out candy. Second, if I go to my kid’s pediatrician and say “my kid got written up for talking out of turn, can I have some pills?” she’s going to say no. If I tell her that my kid is having trouble in school, and the schools suggests we do an ADHD evaluation, then maybe we’ll get a some medication eventually, as part of a combined treatment program. If there IS a doctor out there who will write anybody an Adderall or Ritalin script on request, he’s going to get a visit from the DEA.
Is ADHD being over diagnosed? Maybe, that’s what the studies are being done to investigate. But it can be difficult to determine, because who decides the “right” diagnosis for an individual patient. This doctor said ADHD, but this other disagrees. Which one is wrong? Is that an over diagnosis? It’s probably more along the line of, “this kid is having some problems in school, is it ADHD or something else? We have some reasonably effective treatments for ADHD, so let’s call it that.” Or even, “insurance and the school counselor know what to do with ADHD, so we’re calling it that, even though it probably isn’t, and we don’t know what it really is, but this kid has problems, so we’ve got to do something.”
And if it was so easy for people to eat healthier obesity wouldn’t be at epidemic levels. “Change their relationship with food” is a gentle way of saying “always be hungry again,” as Homer says. Yes, for many disorders that is going to be a necessary part of getting completely healthy, but it is still probably the most difficult part of treatment.
I also don’t see how that relates to ADHD. ADHD drugs don’t give kids a license to act out, they help them to manage those impulses.
Wouldn’t it be amazing if you could beat the mental illness out of somebody? “I can’t do a 2pm meeting, I have a spanking appointment for my anxiety, but I can do 3.”
Stimulant medication for a person with ADHD does not make the person high, or manic. It allows the person to focus and concentrate.
Does your objection to people taking ADHD medications extend to the non-stimulant drugs?
And I still haven’t seen an answer to whether you believe ADHD exists as a real medical disorder, or if you think it’s just bad behavior that can be corrected with the right kind of discipline.
ADD and ADHD are disorders with the executive functions of the brain. They are literally disorders of self control. Trying to get someone to just use self control is essentially saying, “have you tried not having ADHD?” There are coping strategies, habits that can be cultivated, support systems put in place, but lacking self control (in certain ways) is pretty much what the disorder is.
It’s not like saying a diabetic should control their diet – something they are capable of doing. It’s like saying a diabetic should first try making their own insulin, before resorting to medications. That is in conflict with the essential dysfunction that defines the disorder.
Woah woah woah see, that’s where I disagree. You appear to be thinking that there are NO mild cases, NO cases that can be solved without medication.
I can tell you that the way I process information is extremely different from the way most people do. One of the biggest surprises of my life was the discovery that most people think in a linear fashion, cos I sure don’t. Another, that most people don’t have at least one earworm going on at all times; I’ve got as many as three going round and round under normal conditions, my record since I started occasionally counting them is five. And I am telling you that I come from a family, multiple generations, of people who for example are better at taking notes in class while doing something else, but who have been trained from a very young age to have this “something else” be something not bothersome. I filled pages and pages and pages of the square-lined paper we used with crosses. Latin crosses, Maltese crosses, any crosses that you could use to fill the pages completely with no overlap and without leaving any non-cross spaces. Most of the officially-good students ended up with their books written on, highlighted in three colors and whatnot. I didn’t, because one of the principles my family had rammed home before we were even able to write our names was that You Do Not Write In Any Book Another Person May Ever Use (which btw includes any books you’re reading for pleasure and any schoolbooks). But my “dirty notes,” the ones I took in class and later copied in a better handwriting? Those had flying saucers, web-slinging superheroes, knights in scuffed armor, houses, churches, castles and blueprints for home decoration, in pencil, both around and mixed with the inked notes.
Nava I posted above that the most successful outcomes included behavioral training. You have found something that works for you, and that is wonderful. Dangerosa’s child, and my son, have case of ADHD where they cannot function without medication. In my son’s case, we are working on behavioral training too, but it will likely never be enough. His impulsivity led him to do things like jump out second story windows, leave classrooms because he got distracted and wanted to visit someone, climb behind heavy electrical equipment and so on. With medication, he can mostly stay in his seat, and he can focus on the lesson.
So, yes, every case is different. Your case is markedly different from what our children experience. I think that is all that we are saying.
And what I’m trying to say is that medication shouldn’t be what is tried first. I’m not saying it’s not a valuable tool, I’m saying it shouldn’t be what people jump on as soon as they get a diagnosis - which is what I see a lot of parents doing. We’re trying to medicate everything. It’s the same “everybody must be forced within ‘normal’ parameters” my mother learned as a Normal School student, but now with meds.
And what you are missing is that without medicating early, kids who need medication miss time that is important to developing the coping mechanisms they need. They cannot learn them without medication, therefore they miss milestones that cannot be made up later.
And, there aren’t supposed to “mild” cases of ADHD that are medicated in the U.S. My husband has a borderline case of ADHD. You shouldn’t get medication for that - because testing has shown that he can function without it. Its only when you test for needing medication that you get it. The testing is not binary - my daughter tested with “severe inattentive, mild hyperactive” - she wouldn’t be medicated at all for just the hyperactive.
Have you been tested in the U.S. (because I’m sure the protocols are different in different countries)? Are you aware of how this works?
I don’t have ADHD, but I have been prescribed ADHD drugs. Probably because I have symptoms that are comorbid with ADHD and doctors be like “Why the hell not?”
I have also never had a doctor ask me to rate my symptoms before prescibing me anything. My presence in their office is taken as all the proof they need that my problems are severe enough to warrant medication. Since most people are reluctant to go to the doctor even for physical illness, I don’t think this is a crazy assumption.
This is not intended to be a criticism of the medical establishment. But I have never met a psychiatrist who was reluctant to whip out their prescription pad. That is their preferred tool, so of course they are going to jump to that option. I worked with a psychologist before I even considered drugs because I knew my symptoms were mild and possibly exacerbated by factors within my control. I just wanted someone to help me figure out if this was the case before jumping to a pill. Not everyone can afford psychotherapy or the lifestye changes that might effect change, however.
Medicating children with amphetamines is something no doctor should be whipping out a prescription pad to do - and overprescribing them without evaluation will get you a visit from the DEA - its a schedule ii controlled substance. I was just reviewing our documentation - there were eight hours of evaluation involved prior to getting her a prescription. They may do that for adults (although my husband had to be tested). And in some places they may be irresponsible enough to do it for kids - but that wasn’t at all what we went through.
Not what we went through either. Our evaluations included the psychiatrist talking to the school, hist teachers, reviewing records, testing. There was a lot that went into it.
I do think that Monstro is right. Some parents don’t have the resources to pursue full testing, and the school districts do not always follow state or federal mandates to provide this. It is really horrible.
We were told that it wasn’t the schools problem - that it was up to us and our health insurance. The school did everything they could to avoid a diagnosis (and another IEP)
Even with health insurance, it was a $1500 cost to get her diagnosed, and the medication was costing us $300 a month (we had lousy insurance while we were self employed).
My daughter has been diagnosed with ADHD and mild dysgraphia. She was diagnosed at the age of 8 1/2. We chose to not go with a pharmaceutical treatment, but chose an alternative neurological reorganization treatment. I at first thought it sounded like a lot of woo, but spoke to a local MD whose own children went through the program. Essentially it was two years of occupational and physical therapy exercises that we did at home (everyday, about 1 to 1 1/2 hours per day) that consisted of tummy crawling, creeping, pattern movements, light physical movements, etc. Within, 2-3 months we saw a significant emotional change in our daughter. Her ability to not be hyper focused on some subjects, to recall simple lists, not have emotional outbursts, etc. gradually improved over the 2 year period. She graduated from the program about a year ago, and we have not seen much of any set-backs. It took a major commitment from both us as parents and our daughter. During the two years, my daughter and I read all of the Harry Potter series, many Newbery Award books, etc. It was a bonding experience for she and I. Her grades are better now. She has great number of stable friendships at school.
Every town, or at least area, has That Doctor who will say yes to any request, whether it be for ADHD meds or opiates.
And the kid would be much more likely to sell the medication that flush it. I’ve seen more than one parent who was doctor-shopping “for their child”, for this very reason - and as a result, the child may have ADHD symptoms due to the neglectful and abusive environment in which it’s being raised.
There do exist parents, some of them surprisingly intelligent, who think that putting a child on meds will turn them into a prodigy, or a perfectly behaved trophy child of some other type. I once worked with a PHARMACIST who did that - and he had a lengthy history of walking out on jobs without giving notice. Go figure.
I completely agree, but I think that is less common than the perception…and I also think that its less common than it was five or ten years ago.
When we went to get my daughter her college accommodations, they wanted to see the full battery of test results from within the past five years. If you’d been tested in elementary school - go get tested again. If your MD had just prescribed, or your school had just given an IEP on your mom’s say so, then you need to go get tested. The school was well aware of bogus accommodations used to work the system - and “this is college now.”
I have ADHD. Diagnosed in my early 40s. Top of the class in high school, smart, well behaved, respectful… but a colossal fuck-up of a life after that. With ADHD, you hit a wall at some point, where you stop being competent enough to get by. My wall didn’t happen till after high school (which itself was a breeze, I never learned to study, didn’t need to). Some people, the wall is in kindergarten. It’s different, but it’s the same.
ADHD is both over-diagnosed and under-diagnosed at the same time. Over-diagnosed in rowdy misbehaving boys and in people who lie and scheme to get drugs, far UNDER-diagnosed in all other categories, especially in girls and in non-hyperactive boys.