I’ve mentioned before that my 5-year-old daughter has some behavioural issues, and while she is too young for an official diagnosis, her developmental pediatrician feels strongly that she has ADHD.
I’ll admit that my first reaction on hearing this was to sort of roll my eyes… It seems like everyone and their dog have this, we’ve all heard about the overuse of ritalin and the like, and I didn’t really know what it meant. However, I do know what we’ve gone through and after doing a lot of reading, I don’t have much doubt in my mind that it’s real, and she’s got it. I do still feel that it is overdiagnosed, and have reservations about drugs, though.
And so begins the life of interacting with people who feel like I used to about ADHD… The condescending smiles, the assumptions of bad parenting, the lectures on the dangers of medication, the sermons on not trying to put kids in a box and letting their true personalities shine.
So I don’t judge or feel (too) judged by people who are in that camp, since I was there once myself, but I am curious to learn what thought processes are involved with others who feel this way. I debated putting this here or in IMHO, but I want more than just “It’s all an excuse to let kids run wild” or “Parents who suck at their job just drug their kids” and am hoping in this forum to really learn something about the differing viewpoints and possibly the medical science behind why you feel the way you do.
So please, tell me why you don’t think ADHD is real (or why you are sure it is).
While I understand this, I can tell you, as someone who really and truly does have ADHD, learning in a typical school setting is damn near impossible. I bugged my parents all throughout grade and high school about it. I knew something was up, but I didn’t know what it was. Some time during high school I learned about ADD and did some reading about it and figured (well, I knew) that’s what I had. In college I got my self a psychiatrist and was put on (eventually) Adderall. It made a world of difference. Suddenly I could actually focus in class, read my books, do my homework etc. My parents has me tested for it in grade school but I was ‘border line’ and it always bugged me that they never said “Well, not medicating him isn’t working, lets see how he responds to the meds.” If I had gone on ADD meds in 5th or 6th grade instead of as a sophomore in college I might have been a 3.0 student in high school instead of 2.0 student. Maybe I would have even gone to a college that you would have heard of if you lived more then 30 miles away from it.
Part of the trick was to take the pills as I needed them. I didn’t take them on weekends. I didn’t take them when I didn’t need them. I took them when I had to study, I took them when on days when I had a lot of classes. I took them when I had tests. Hell, I took them when I needed to clean the apartment so I wouldn’t waste the day watching TV instead. I didn’t take “2 pills by mouth twice a day”. Mom didn’t give them to me to keep me under control. Perhaps that’s the difference. They didn’t have a chance to turn me into a zombie since I took them when I needed them and I knew how to time my dosages so they would wear off when I was done with them.
To this day, I still have a hard time reading. I almost never read because I’m one of those people that can read three pages of a book and have no idea at all what I read. My eyes went back and forth. The words went into my head…but that’s it. My brain was else where and I end up having to read the same three pages several times to absorb it. It makes reading more of chore and not very enjoyable.
I won’t say that I don’t think it’s real, but it is definitely way over diagnosed. From my own experience, when I was a kid, several of my teachers insisted I must have had it as well as a psychiatrist and one of my parents, but I was never put on medication or anything else. Once I got a little farther in school, it turned out that I just was REALLY bored because I wasn’t being challenged, and once I got more appropriate attention, my behavior improved. And once I got more physical activity, like participating in sports, I had an easier time sitting still too. I may or may not actually have had it, or still have it, I dunno, but I know how to manage myself.
I know some kids now that people claim have it or have been diagnosed with it, but I’m not convinced any of them have it either. Some of them have very poor discipline, in that their parents don’t seem to set boundaries for them. Some of them pretty much sit inside all day, so it’s no wonder they have lots of energy to burn off and difficulty sitting still. In fact, I think that’s probably what causes so many kids to get diagnosed.
In today’s society, kids don’t get nearly as much physical activity as they used to, they’re expected to pretty much sit still all day in school, made even worse by cutting PE budgets and reducing recess, and then they go home and watch TV, play videogames, and use the computer. Kids getting more exercise will help a lot with that. Similarly, it seems like a lot of parents are getting lazier about teaching their kids boundaries and making them play outside and get exercise. And, at least from my experience, many of the kids that were diagnosed or people believe have it, are either extremely bright or have some kind of learning disability that makes paying attention that much more difficult for them.
That said, it doesn’t make sense to say that it isn’t real because there probably are kids who get plenty of exercise, are getting appropriate attention from their teachers, and have attentive and discipline parents but still have those issues. The idea that there aren’t chemical imbalances in any kid that might benefit from medication is just as preposterous as the idea that so many kids have that chemical imbalance.
I agree with everything Master Blaster said here. Overdiagnosis is the real problem. People would take it more seriously if it were more appropriately diagnosed.
Elret, can you give us a good source for the symptoms and causes of ADHD?
Actually, this is one of the things that leads me to believe that I may have some form of it. Through much of my life, almost everyone who knows me to any degree has expressed something along the lines of “You’re so smart, and your brothers love to read, I’m surprised you don’t.” I can focus on short things like posts here, but much more straight reading than that and my experience is just how you describe.
Fortunately–or not, I’m not really sure if it’s a good thing–I was able to get away with not having to do much reading in school since I seemed to pick up enough from half-paying attention to the lectures and the projects to do just fine and when I had to do it, I either didn’t read it and picked up what I missed from discussions or got a book on tape from the library. It didn’t really become an issue until grad school when I had to force my way through relevant articles which were already legitimately difficult reads even for someone who enjoys reading.
Out of curiousity, when you’re on the drugs, does that zoning out while reading go away and is it suddenly enjoyable or is it still unenjoyable or difficult to read?
Unlike some medical conditions, ADHD is hard to definitively diagnose. Some of the symptoms sound (to me, a medical non-professional) just like the way kids always acted – years ago, they were just active and normal kids, now they have a special condition.
Which means that if there is a trend towards more ADHD patients or fewer, it might not be because the problem is increasing, but the diagnosis is changing, or the line between normal and abnormal has shifted. More awareness tends to lead to inclusion.
I’m a teacher. I’ve seen Your Kid is a Spoiled Brat Syndrome and I’ve seen ADD/ADHD. I also have (actual diagnosed) ADD - no hyperactivity there, though. I don’t take meds because they make me plumb stupid. I tried once and figured, *oh to hell with it. I made it this far. I’ll just keep doodling on my work and multitasking when I can. *
Most of the time, though, it appears to be Your Kid is a Spoiled Brat Syndrome and he/she has an IEP and now I’m stuck with your kid, can’t remove them from the class when they are being grossly disruptive and I have extra paperwork.
I experience that too, but not enough to be concerned. From my personal perspective, it’s only when I have weighty things on my mind that I can’t absorb reading material. Upon occasion I’ll start thinking on a sidetrack while reading and then after a while realize I was just going through the motions of reading and didn’t comprehend any of it. For me, simple refocusing does the trick and I can go on with high comprehension.
I could see myself being symptomatic of ADHD in a very slight and mild way, but it’s not so bad that I’d care to do anything about it.
As I get older my real problem with reading for extended periods is getting sleepy.
I’m truly glad that you found something that works for you.
At the same time, I’m 100% sure that if I took an occasional, well-timed dose of amphetamines, I too would be massively more productive. It’s common practice for college students to use black-market adderral to get them through the all-nighters. Amphetamines make everyone more energetic, focused, detail-oriented and task-minded. Chemically, it has the same effect on the brain of a neurotypical person as it does as on a person with ADHD. While it might take you from being a C student to being a B student, it might take me from being an A- student to an A+ student. Any meth addict can tell you that amphetamines make one massively more interested in giving the house a thorough spring cleaning. Doctors, truckers and air force pilots use basically the same chemicals to boost their productivity.
So why is it that when I am having trouble focusing on my studies (like today- I’m surfing the dope instead of writing my final papers) it’s illegal for me to take a pill that would help me?
My parents put me on ritalin, and I was a reader. I could, and can still, engross my self in a book for hours on end. Putting it down was a far harder issue than picking it up in the first place.
I just started putting the pills under my tongue after a year or so, then spitting them out.
I’ve gotten most of my information from literature given or loaned to me by the doctor, but I’ll see if I can find something on line that is similar.
I’ll give a brief background of my child - not to be defensive, just as information for those who may not realize that it isn’t always just walking into a doctor’s office with an energetic kid and getting drugs and to illustrate why I am as convinced as I am that ADHD fits.
She was always busy and stubborn, which I believe is simply her personality and nothing to do with anything else. My husband is a teacher, we were both raised by parents we admire, we are very aware of the importance of and always strive to provide a structured, loving home with clear limits and consequences. Neither of us are violent or aggressive, and we settle any arguments in a civil way.
At the age of 2, she started being defiant with us and having some trouble getting along with other kids. Of course our reaction was, “She’s two!” But as it turned out, she was, uh, more two than any other kid around… We lost 4 daycare places due to her meltdowns, defiance, and aggression towards other kids, and thus started our quest to figure out what was going on. It’s hard to explain how her behaviour (which as mentioned above, just sounds like regular toddler stuff) was just more, more, more than tantrums or sulking… But the fact that 4 (4!) professional daycare providers decided she was unmanageable will hopefully illustrate.
Over the past few years, we have visited various doctors, counsellors, therapists, and psychologists, filled out probably 50 - 60 behavioural assessment charts, had our parenting assessed, tried cognitive behavioural therapy, play therapy, and different discipline methods, took parenting classes, anger management programs, journalled sleep patterns and dietary info, etc etc etc. Nothing helped, at all. (In case anyone is thinking this would all have been overwhelming for her, do know that the vast majority was done sort of behind the scenes… for her it was mostly just going to a regular check up or going once a week to play barbies with that nice lady…)
Problems continued through preschool and junior kindergarten, including several suspensions from kindergarten. We worked with the school and the school board team to get assessments through the province, and I ended up having to leave my job due to the difficulty in retaining daycare and the fact that several times a week I would be called to come pick her up early. During this year, she was “pre-diagnosed” with Oppositional Defiant Disorder by a pediatrician, which was pooh-poohed by a neuropsych and the developmental pediatrician who both insisted that ODD behaviour in a child of that age was almost a sure sign of ADHD to come.
Sure enough, over the past summer, her behaviour changed drastically - the defiance and meltdowns are almost completely gone, but have been replaced with a complete and utter inability to be still, or keep focus on anything. She is also extremely impulsive. Yes, certainly all of these things are regular kid things, but her kindergarten teacher (who has taught for over 20 years) immediately called us in to discuss the possibility of ADHD due to her being those things so so much more than the other 5 year olds.
We also took her to do a (completely non-ADHD related) study at a local university and as I sat in a separate room watching her over the video screen, I almost cried. There were about six cameras on her, from different angles, and at no point was any part of her still. One screen showed her feet vibrating, one showed her hands, she was squirming and climbing and grabbing and poking, and literally not still for even a second. There were about 7 psychology and psychiatry grad students in the room with me, and they all laughed at first at how squirmy she was, and then you could hear the joky comments turn into concerned murmers, and then one came to me and quietly suggested I take her to the family doctor.
So my point is, this is not something we have done lightly, this is not just us who see these things, and it’s clear to us that it both impacts her ability to function (or at least certainly mine, if she cannot be in a daycare!) and is far removed from what is “normal” for her age. Additional, non-stereotypical symptoms she has that have been connected with ADHD: she wets the bed as much as three times a night, she has sensitivities to some sounds and the feel of certain clothes, and she is rarely, rarely cold but often feels way, way too hot.
As I’ve said, I do think it’s overdiagnosed and I don’t know where I stand on drugs, but I definitely don’t think it’s an excuse for lazy parenting or misbehaviour. We still expect her to follow the rules and behave properly.
Sounds like you have a serious issue on your hands. Please do not take anything I have to say as belittling your experience. I wish you well in your search for answers to help your little girl.
Yes, the zoning out and day dreaming goes away. You are totally 100% focused on the task at hand. I don’t know if it makes reading more enjoyable because I was a hard science guy so my reading was more Physics notes and less English Lit. One of the problems is that there would be times where I’d take it because I really needed to study for something and then two hours later realized that I just spend two hours cleaning the kitchen. I had gotten up to do something after I took the pill, got sidetracked (as usual) and was off on a tangent when the meds kicked in and didn’t realized that I was totally zoned in on the wrong thing. Then the question is…do you take more meds and risk being up all night, or just give up and try again tomorrow?
(Attn mods, this was almost a decade ago, not something I do now)
As for the black market…I’m well aware of that. My psychiatrist massively over medicated me. She prescribed me 2 Adderalls, 3 times per day…I took a half a pill in the morning. That left me with 165 extras each month. During the time that I was seeing her I sold two batches of 500 pills and my friends and I snorted the rest of them.
I graduated 9 years ago and I still have a lot of them (plus quite few of the other pills that didn’t work as well Dexadrine, Dextrostat etc). They are absolutly amazing for getting rid of cold symptoms.
As for why it’s illegal for you to take them you’re having trouble focusing, well, it’s because you didn’t go to a psychiatrist and get a prescription for them. That’s like asking why it’s illegal for me to take your antibiotics even though we have the same symptoms. If I want antibiotics, I have to go to my own doc, get my own diognosis and my own script.
Also, I’m not sure it’s the same for an ADDer as it is for someone with out ADD to take the pills. I can tell you that when my ADHD was in full swing, taking a half a pill did not in anyway make me feel more energetic. It (as most people will tell you) calmed me down. It allowed me to focus on what I was doing instead of goofing around with everyone else in the dorm.
I was diagnosed with it too. And I do fine now. I was just a kid who had liked to get my own way and had a crazy mother, literally.
I am 100% sure it does exist. I have seen kids with it. I had nothing like it. It is real, just overdiagnosed.
I have a mother with a mental illness and she’s been diagnosed with so many different mental illnesses from schizophrenia to bi-polar to a sociopath to a simple malingerer.
So I feel for those going through it. I am not sure what my mother has, but if someone, who I know is clearly mentally ill can’t get a proper diagnoses, I can see where it’d be all screwed up for a little kid
I do not have ADHD or a learning disability, and I don’t think I could get a prescription for these drugs without outright lying to a doctor.
But it seems that the difference between you and I is difference in quantity, not quality. This is where it gets a bit messy for me. Why am I lazy for getting an A- when, with a little chemical help, I could get an A+, but you are sick when you do basically the same thing as me but to a different degree?
Agree 100%. And this over-diagnosis is a problem with many “deficiencies”, “disorders”, “syndromes”, etc. On whole, it is not helpful, as it attempts to put certain behavior outside the persons ability to control it. I find it both weakening and dehumanizing.
I just wanted to clarify that I know that some people do have real problems and need help with them, whether in the form of medication or counseling.
It’s not just a matter of me being a little bit lazier then you. It’s that I passed (failed?) what the American Psychiatric Association list of criteria for having ADHD.
Here, take a look
The funny thing was, one of the reasons my mom refused to believe that I had AD(H)D was because she would point out things like “You can work on a puzzle or model rocket and not lift your head for hours…it’s just when you have to do something you don’t like that you have problems” When I started researching this on my own I found out about something called hyperfocus, which is basically the ability to do just that. Oddly enough it’s not proof that one doesn’t have ADD, but actually one of the symptoms.
Also, another thing. I was one of those kids that had to rip the tags out of shirts (still do, to this day). I couldn’t wear a belt of it was going to ride up and rub on my skin a little bit. I had a god awful time finding shoes that wouldn’t annoy me. I can’t remember the name of it. But I found out that’s another symptom of ADD. Part of it is just being over sensitive to that. But the problem is, when you have someone that already can’t read a book with out day dreaming and then add in that they can’t stop paying attention to the tag on their shirt…nothing gets done.
I remember years ago reading something about a psychiatrist that would make the parents of kids with ADD spend the day doing everything they had to do normally, but if they had to write, they had to do it with one of those giant novelty pencils. Just to make the parents understand what it’s like to be hyper aware of everything all the time. Sure, in this case, the only thing they were hyper aware of was their pencil, but imagine, noticing the pencil, and the sound it makes, and the light buzzing and the co-worker that talks really loud and someone chewing and someone tapping their foot while the read…I was going somewhere with this :scrolls back up:: Ah, yes…I’m not just a few degrees lazier then you…I didn’t take pills just to give myself some pep to get stuff done, this is very different.
That’s like asking why you can’t get Percocets for your papercut when your friend gets them after he put his hand in a meat grinder…he isn’t in a few degrees more pain…it’s a whole different ballgame. Sure, the Percocets will help your pain, just like the Adderall will help your laziness, but it’s not fair to compare your laziness to ADHD. They really have nothing to do with each other at all.
I tried once and figured, *oh to hell with it. I made it this far. I’ll just keep doodling on my work and multitasking when I can. *