Well, you’re correct in that I was wrong about who opened the Pit thread and I apologize for that. However I still fail to see why people are characterizing the mod’s posts as dramatically out of line. And I fail to see why, when a mod rather justifiably says “Why must you people question EVERYTHING we do”, the first thing that someone does is run to the Pit and question them.
While we’re on the subject of not reading things, the official policy on explanation of bannings (posted by C K Dexter Haven) is this:
"On explanations for bannings
When a long-time poster (or reasonably so, like a paid member) is banned, we will usually post the reasons in the About This Message Board Forum. when soemone is banned, PLEASE WAIT a couple of days before asking why. If you don’t see a thread in this forum with explanation, then the person was either a sock puppet, a spammer, or a banned person trying to sneak back in. "
Note the word “usually”. Note the phrase “PLEASE WAIT a couple of days before asking why”. We can certainly extend this to please wait a couple of days before asking why no explanation was posted.
It’s pretty clear that the admins have decided to explain why long-term or popular posters have been banned (because those are usually controversial and affect the community) but make no promises about the short time flashes-in-the-pan (who are generally wastes of electrons). So the failure to announce a reason for this particular banning was adequately covered IN THE FAQ.
Don’t talk to me about not being a thorough enough reader.
OK. How about we talk to you about at least minimally checking your facts before shooting your mouth off? The poster in question had been a paid member for nearly a year, with a join date of 03-14-2005. As such, he was hardly a “short time flash-in-the-pan”, and his banning was not, therefore, “adequately covered IN THE FAQ”.
You did note the modifier "usually"?
The "why was this poster banned?" announcement policy came about because people wanted to know why popular or at least notorious posters had been shown the door. Often these were posters who at one point had been valued members of the community and had then melted down. It was clearly never intended to cover every single person who got booted from the SDMB because they couldn't figure out how to keep their drool from shorting out their keyboard.
It's obvious to me that there should never have been a question of ** whether the policy had been changed**, because the policy was never to monitor the fall of every sparrow who flutters into the SDMB. It's only necessary in those cases where the poster is well known or the reason for the banning is controversial.
If there's no mystery about the banning and there's little if any chance that the poster will be missed, then why is the announcement needed? Unless you're the type of person who likes driving by ghastly car accidents. As the mods pointed out, it takes time to create the posting, track down the documentary links, and even when they do bother, they're * still * going to get the inevitable Pit thread saying "So-and-so shouldn't have been banned for that minor infraction."
Lot of work, very little gained by it, and people are still going to bitch about it no matter what they do.
The thread wasn’t titled “Why I Think You Have To Announce Every Single Banning”. It was a simple question, which was answered. This thread is about what happened afterwards. I guess you agree that the question was such an obviously hostile move toward the mods it deserved a double smackdown. If that’s the case, why not make a ‘No asking about bannings’ rule?
Nonsense, the question was reasonably asked. The idea that the question should never have been asked is complete BS. A user had some confusion or potential misunderstanding about the policy, probably not the only one either. And it was a perfect time to respond with the clarification so it was more obvious what the policy was. Just because it is written somewhere doesn’t mean folks won’t have questions. There was no malice in the question, how the Admins could have been exasperated by this simple question is hard to fathom. In the ideal world, all questions would be relevant, all questions that could be answerded with a search or such would be. But if you cannot handle a polite and honest question from one of the paying members, then you need to stop playing Admin, because you haven’t the stomach for it.
Who gives a fuck what Finagle point is? His point has changed with every post as he kept on being corrected. In two posts time who knows what he’ll be arguing against. For some reason he thinks that the very valid reason for this thread is BS. That’s his right to think and post that but it doesn’t add anything to the actual substance of his argument.
Well, from an opposing point of view, who gives a fuck what you think? To me you’re just some random nimrod who’s gotten bent out of shape because some other random nimrod got a less than absolutely courteous response to a dumb question.
While I’ve been trying to respond to the comments I’ve been getting, I think my core point have been pretty constant. The post in ATMB was unnecessary. The Pit posting was unnecessary. And the mod’s response to the ATMB post was testy but pretty damned mild considering the shit that they have to put up with everytime they take an action whatsoever.
Finagle, not only did you seem to have failed basic reading comprehension (and I hope Contrapuntal isn’t too insulted that I was mistaken for him;)) you must have missed out on basic etiqutte as well. The reason people are making a fuss (or at least the reason I’m making a fuss) is simple–If I asked the question why customers at my place of employment must ask stupid questions anywhere within earshot of a customer or potential customer, I’d be immediately reprimanded and the person who overheard me would be appologized to. If I directed the question to a customer I would not be surprised at all if I were fired.
Not only that, but the Administrators were doing exactly the things they’ve warned members about–presumming to know other people’s motivations, jumping into a thread to bitch about something unrelated, and treating every routine incident as something to complain about. The irony, frankly, is so great, I might have opened a thread about it if it had happened somewhere completely unrelated to the Dope, just to comment about it!
I don’t know why I’m bothering to explain all this to you when everyone else gets it, but having come this far, I’ll further point out that I’ve done everything imaginable to be as polite and unassuming as possible. The ATMB thread was closed after I had responed to Lynn and Tuba, but before they necessarily had a chance to reply back. All I did was invite them to post whatever reply they might have made there.
Finally, Finagle, I’ll just say that given your behavior in this thread, I can see why you might have some sympathy and understanding with the Administrators. You seem to have a lot in common.
In your opinion. Obviously, there are people who disagree with that assessment.
No, It wasn’t. The question in ATMB was never answered. If something is done consistently in a certain way, such as bannings for established members being announced, then it is considered to be SOP. When SOP is broken, it’s perfectly reasonable to ask why.
Wah. They knew the job was dangerous when they took it, Fred. Questioning authority is something most intelligent people do. Especially when it breaks from the usual way of doing things. See my point above. Both Lynn and Tuba were decidedly snippy in their answers. The poster in question wasn’t rude. There was no hidden agenda. All he asked was “are we doing this different now?” for fuck’s sake. Get over it. It was a simple question. And two pages of thread and probably one more to come could’ve been avoided by some mod or admin strolling in, saying “Yes, we just hadn’t gotten around to it, kinda busy, sorry bout that.” and strolling out again. Of all the things we question and criticize the mods and admins for, this is probably the most insignificant one to get your panties in a bunch about.
If anyone agrees with Finagle’s position, I’d really like for them to come forward. I’d like to hear the other side argued with a little reason, logic and comprehension.
The Reader ain’t making any money off this MB, but yet TPTB keep it going for whatever reason, and I thank them for that. I enjoy this place. But if certain people representing this place as admins are going to fly off the handle in innapropriate places, and be discourteous to us over assumptions they’re making about us-- well, that’s just not a good way to maintain and build a community. And building and maintaining a community is what I truly believe is their motivation for doing what they do. If they truly believe that some posters are being jerks for the sake of pissing of the mod staff by asking certain questions, then I would suggest they follow the advice we’ve been offered so much in the past: Do Not Feed the T-word. We’ve been told in the past not to assume someone is t-wording, so why the fuck can they? And if they are allowed to make such assumptions, by reason of their position, how is getting pissy and patronizing going to solve the problem?
If they just answer the question with a simple reply, with an appropriate link, they: 1) have effectively provided an answer to a poster with a legit question, and 2) not fed a troll looking to piss off the mod staff.
On preview, I see Maureen’s post:
In defense of Dex, he did do that. Lynn and Tuba came in to fly off the handle after he answered the OP.
You’re POV is as valid as mine. Once we stay within the rules all members POV’s are valid(from a right to post perspective). Your POV of the what happened however is very wrong IMO.
No it has not been consistent. Your initial reason why it was unnecessary was not the reason you now give. You have changed your reasoning to get to the same result. IMO you have forced the reasoning to fit your initial statement. You said asking why a poster was banned was unnecessary. You were then shown that that wasn’t what was asked. You are now saying that the post was unnecessary because of a completely different reason. There is no consistency there my friend.
Finagle, you fucking dumbass, did someone piss in your Rice Krispies? Or maybe they got switched with stupid food, you know, to see if you could tell the difference. Guess you couldn’t.
You claim to have read the thread but your lying lips betray you. The title alone should have been enough. You have yet to show me where anyone was questioning a moderater decision. If you have a specific problem with something I have done come on out with it. Otherwise, toss out the shovel and climb out of the hole.
Probably not. It’s been my experience that the odds of getting an answer approximately vary with the square of the amount of time that has elapsed without one. Or maybe it’s the third power. I’m not holding my breath, in any case.
I think we’ve gotten the only answer we will, Xploder. The people involved don’t want to defend themselves or apologize, and why should they–There’s no real defense for how they acted, certainly not one most people would accept, and who’d believe an apology at this point?
No one is going to make them apologize either. Little Ed probably has better things to do, and The Reader just doesn’t care. Let’s face it, we could all throw up our hands and leave, and The Reader would save whatever bucks they still toss into this thing. (Does anyone think it’s making a profit yet?) The columns would still go out, Ed would still have his job, Dex and Lynn probably would too.
Lots of people thought paying membership dues meant we’d be listened too and treated respectfully, but come on–plenty of real brick and mortar businesses have employees or even bosses that act like jerks to me. If I want what they sell, I just take my lumps. Do the McZombies at the drive-thru apologize to you for screwing up your hamburger? I can’t even get half of them to look at me as they take my money! “Thank you”?–Forget it!
The Reader has consistently shown that they can’t even be bothered to turn this place into a real revenue source, despite plenty of suggestion on how to do it. The opportunity cost of having the publisher read the memo on cheaper hosting or better tshirts or whatever probably outweighs the projected revenue anyway.
In other words, no body cares.
It’s not a community; it’s not even a business; it’s a messageboard, and nobody but us gives two shits what we think or how we’re treated. I hoped for more, but I knew the odds when I started this thread.