Advertising=Racism?

[Airman_Doors_USAF]

I am taking a class this semester called “Current Strategies in Media Programming”, which is essentially about what is programmed, how the determination is made to program something, and why certain seemingly unpopular things remain on the broadcast schedule when others are not. Integral to these decisions is advertising, because (as you might suspect) programs that do not make money do not last very long. The other day we engaged in a disussion of demographics and psychographics as determining factors of the type of advertising that people will be targeted with.

It seems to me that advertising is not only racism, but a particularly insidious type of racism in that the general public not only accepts it but desires it. For instance: let’s say that I were to target an inner city neighborhood. I do some research and determine that the neighborhood is 80% black. I do further research into what black people are interested in buying, and from that I come up with a picture of what I can sell to them.

That sounds remarkably like a stereotype, doesn’t it? That’s exactly what it is, of course. If I am advertising beer am I going to advertise the new microbrew or am I going to hire Billy Dee Williams and push Colt 45? If I’m selling sneakers am I going to push New Balance or am I going to push Air Jordans? I’m going to push what I can sell, because that’s how money is made. I am going to pander to the basest of stereotypes with the assurance that my research has demonstrated that money can be made with these types of products.

Which, of course, leads to another question: does pandering to those stereotypes perpetuate the stereotype, or does the ability to pander result from the stereotype? In other words, who’s leading who? If I advertise Timberlands and people buy them, is it because I was successful in getting people to buy them or is it because they always buy them and I knew they would? Using my example above, if I push the latest and greatest foo-foo microbrew on that type of demographic, can I a) be reasonably sure of success, and b) change the buying habits of people? Another example: if my research shows that a rural county is 80% white and love their guns and pickup trucks, can I sell them rap music? I would think that the answer is obvious, and yet that’s exactly what I’m taking about. There’s no money to be made in that manner, so I’m more likely going to sell them country music. And what’s more, by selling them country music I’m reinforcing the stereotype and likely ensuring my success at selling them more in the future. Does that mean that I am responsible for creating the stereotype, or am I just playing to it?

I know I’ve repeated myself here with my examples, but I have no real desire to be accused of racism so I’ve tried to make it very clear. I don’t know how successful I’ve been with that, but I guess we’ll see. And that, really, is the point of the whole thing. Why is such a blatant form of racism (in my opinion) perfectly acceptable and, frankly, desired, and why don’t people call it out as such?

[Sage_Rat]

To have the same negative connotationr required to make this “racist,” the products you’re selling would have to be somehow “good” and “bad.”

If I want to sell wine, I sell to the French. And if I want to sell beer, I sell to the Germans. Certainly, I’m segmenting my audience into different bodies, but given that there is no saying that party A is better for liking wine and party B worse for liking beer, it really doesn’t matter.

As to whether advertising creates rifts in local/racial likes and dislikes, probably it’s a mixed bag. Either way, so long as everyone is happy, I’m not sure it really matters.

[Giles]

Suppose you were marketing a product in two different countries: either two similar countries, like the US and Canada, or two very different countries, like New Zealand and Cambodia.

Would you consider having different advertising campaigns, based on your research of the cultural differences between the two countries? And they might be similar, but with some differences, for the US and Canada, or very different, for NZ and Cambodia?

Of course, this might be related to cultural stereotypes, but those stereotypes are related to reality. And, similarly, a campaign directed at black people in the US will be different, not because of the colour of their skin, but because there are cultural differences between whites and blacks in the US, just as there are between Americans and Canadians.

It’s not racism: it’s just recognising that there are differences: not just stereotypes, but real differences, caused by a difference in cultural history.

[constanze]

@Sage Rat

If I want to sell wine, I sell to the French. And if I want to sell beer, I sell to the Germans. Certainly, I’m segmenting my audience into different bodies, but given that there is no saying that party A is better for liking wine and party B worse for liking beer, it really doesn’t matter.

Isn’t that like carrying Owls to Athens? I would rather expect the French to buy their own wine, and the Germans to buy their own (clean) beer than the American stuff.

[FRDE]

You could solve your problem by using Search and Replace to change ‘racism’ into ‘demographics’

[you_with_the_face]

@Airman Doors

For instance: let’s say that I were to target an inner city neighborhood. I do some research and determine that the neighborhood is 80% black. I do further research into what black people are interested in buying, and from that I come up with a picture of what I can sell to them.

That sounds remarkably like a stereotype, doesn’t it?

No, that sounds like scientifically researching the buying habits of a certain demographic and using the results to determine a marketing strategy.

Stereotyping doesn’t employ the scientific method. It is far more lazier than that. The thinking behind stereotyping would be like this: We want to attract black customers, its common wisdom that black people like rap, and therefore, all of our commercials should feature rap music.

I’d hazard to guess that advertising execs use that type of thinking far more than the kind you’re talking about.

[you_with_the_face]

If a mod could delete everything after the third paragraph in my last post, I’d be forever grateful.

[constanze]

I agree with Sage Rat: as long as there is no “Good/Bad” distinction between the different advertising groups, I wouldn’t call it racism.

In fact, if all ads were the same, whether they were aimed at 80% inner-city black people or 80% rural white people, the same spot with the same (white?) actors for New Zealand and Canada, then that might be considered a form of arrogance or cultural insensitivity - not recognizing that different places have different cultures.

[magellan01]

I think you are using the term “sterotype” too broadly. Their are different product preferences in different cultures. Is it stereotyping to advertise Chinese food products to a Chinese community? Of course not. You are simply hoping they will by your brand of a food category you know they buy.

I work in advertising. About 12 years ago I worked on a malt liquor account. The company wanted to sell as much malt liquor as they could. They did tons of research and found just two targets who were at all interested. One were young college kids who like Mickey’s Malt Liquor. The other audience, by far larger, was urban areas with large black populations. For whatever reaon, the target likes the product (category). And each company is going to advertise in hopes that the target will buy more of their brand. The company I was working with wanted to be the one of the four or five brands that would be foremost in the minds of the target (the likely buyers).

[Jackmannii]

@Airman Doors

Why is such a blatant form of racism (in my opinion) perfectly acceptable and, frankly, desired, and why don’t people call it out as such?

It has been called out as such. This is one typical example.

Heavy advertising of such products may well be harmful. I’m not sure it’s racist.

[Revenant_Threshold]

They aren’t stereotypes, really. The market research for your product isn’t just saying “Hey, so-and-so group like beer, we’ll target them”. They’re actually doing research into what people want. If they come to you and say that 80% of one group like your beer, they’re not guessing; they’ve used focus groups and tests to actually find out that 80% of whatever group are likely to buy your beer.

After all, if the research they did was inaccurate, that would mean a failed product.

[doreen]

I don’t think acknowledging that different groups as a whole prefer certain products or TV shows or magazines to others has anything to do with stereotyping or racism.
I think those issues come into play when people expect an individual to conform to those stereotypes. It’s one thing to say that the most popular music among black teenagers is rap, another to find it amazing that a 60 year old white man likes rap or that a black teenager likes the Eagles and still another when a car salesman automatically speaks to my husband rather than to me.

[Airman_Doors_USAF]

@doreen

I don’t think acknowledging that different groups as a whole prefer certain products or TV shows or magazines to others has anything to do with stereotyping or racism.

But why do they prefer those particular products, TV shows or magazines? Because I tell them to or because they just do and I’m using them?

I think those issues come into play when people expect an individual to conform to those stereotypes. It’s one thing to say that the most popular music among black teenagers is rap, another to find it amazing that a 60 year old white man likes rap or that a black teenager likes the Eagles and still another when a car salesman automatically speaks to my husband rather than to me.

But if it is historically a cultural norm that the male of the house makes the big decision, what’s wrong with that? And if my research shows me that 60-year-old white males like the Byrds and Zeppelin, why shouldn’t I be amazed that he likes rap? One of my lifelong friends is black and all he buys is R&B, and I was utterly stunned when Toto came on the radio and he turned it up. Should I not have been?

It seems to me that there’s a thin line here, hard to define and even harder to quantify.

[constanze]

@Airman Doors

But if it is historically a cultural norm that the male of the house makes the big decision, what’s wrong with that? And if my research shows me that 60-year-old white males like the Byrds and Zeppelin, why shouldn’t I be amazed that he likes rap? One of my lifelong friends is black and all he buys is R&B, and I was utterly stunned when Toto came on the radio and he turned it up. Should I not have been?

It seems to me that there’s a thin line here, hard to define and even harder to quantify.

Because it’s one thing to point to a group of a hundred 60-year old white males, and say that 80% (or whatever) of them will like the Byrds, because statistical polls show that. It’s quite another thing to assume every 60-year-old white male you meet will like the Byrds, and be surprised if he likes Rap. Yes, it’s certainly very easy to fall into that grove, so many people do it. But it’s important to remember that every person you meet may the exception to all stereotypes, or to some, and not simply put him into the category of stereotypes first.

I try to remember, when meeting foreign-looking people on the street, not to expect that they don’t speak my language, because it’s also possible that black or Turkish people have been born and raised in Germany like me, and talk fluent German with a cologne accent, instead of assuming that black=African= can’t speak German.

Try to imagine that you are on the receiving end of a stereotype - somebody assumes something about you based on your looks, and treats you accordingly. Wouldn’t you feel angry or insulted at that, that your opposite didn’t invest the effort in gettting to know you? (And esp. ennerving is when the people don’t correct their impressions - the car salesman who continues to adress the man, because “women don’t understand about cars and don’t have the money”, even when you hint that it’s your money and you have expertise.)

[Rodgers01]

I don’t think it’s particularly racist. Is it also sexist that there are different commercials on Spike TV vs. Lifetime, or MTV vs. ABCFamily?

Besides, ad campaigns don’t always work, and if whatever community being targeted by a campaign does not want the product, they will decide so en masse and the ad campaign will be shot down. It’s like when people complain that it’s racist that there are too many fried chicken stores in black urban areas: they’re there because they make money, and when they stop making money, they’ll close up shop.

[doreen]

@Airman Doors

But why do they prefer those particular products, TV shows or magazines? Because I tell them to or because they just do and I’m using them?

Probably depends a lot on the product. For example, I’m sure the market for adult diapers tends to be older and people who are going to use the product just because they need it.

But if it is historically a cultural norm that the male of the house makes the big decision, what’s wrong with that?

What’s wrong with that is that the problem with stereotyping is precisely the expectation that an individual will conform to a stereotype. Because people are individuals and belong to a variety of different groups, and it is unlikely than any one individual will conform to all the stereotypes that might apply, no matter how accurate they might be as an expression of group preference. The expectation that they apply to every individual is what leads to such things as salespeople either ignoring or being suspicious of people who don’t fit the stereotype of the typical customer.

And if my research shows me that 60-year-old white males like the Byrds and Zeppelin, why shouldn’t I be amazed that he likes rap? One of my lifelong friends is black and all he buys is R&B, and I was utterly stunned when Toto came on the radio and he turned it up. Should I not have been?

No, but you had more information than simply that he was black- you also know that all he buys is R&B

It seems to me that there’s a thin line here, hard to define and even harder to quantify.

[ultrafilter]

Here’s stereotyping at it’s most basic level:

Some members of group A have property P.
x is a member of group A.
Therefore, x has property P.

The only error here is going from the fact that some members of a group have a property to the conclusion that a particular member of that group has that property. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with noticing tendencies among groups and altering your interactions with those groups accordingly; in fact, it would be considered quite disrespectful to do otherwise.

[Magiver]

@Airman Doors

It seems to me that advertising is not only racism, but a particularly insidious type of racism in that the general public not only accepts it but desires it. For instance: let’s say that I were to target an inner city neighborhood. I do some research and determine that the neighborhood is 80% black. I do further research into what black people are interested in buying, and from that I come up with a picture of what I can sell to them.

That sounds remarkably like a stereotype, doesn’t it?

Stereotyping is the perceived characteristics of a demographic group. What you are describing is demographic research. If you are a distributor of hot sauce and your research shows that Mexican immigrants like a variety of hot sauce then that is not stereotyping. My example would be stereotyping because I haven’t done any research beyond watching a show about hot sauce and how popular it is in California.