Forget England. What about moderate Muslims in Afghanistan? Are there none? Is any Afghan imam calling for tolerance and acceptance?
I’d say David Simmons & Updike were being sarcastic.
John Mace, There are no moderate muslims. Least of all a moderate imam.
If you’re moderate, you’re dead.
I’m not entirely convinced by the evidence for these conclusions.
I don’t care.
On the contrary. Your dedication to bigotry is conspicuous.
Congratulations! The Board of Directors of the Pot.Kettle.Black. Hall of Fame has elected you to the Hall by unanimous vote. Your plaque and beanie with propeller will be arriving by third class mail. For an extra $250* we will create a lighted shrine in the vestibule in your honor.
*Pay Pal accepted.
Muslims, inside or outside England, have no special obligation to protest anything. But that they in the hundreds of thousands so loudly, and in some instances so violently, protest a few cartoons, but apparently do not feel the need to likewise in mass and loudly protest the supposedly hijacking of their religion by terrorists and the atrocities done in their beloved religion’s name, as here murder of a man who’s only crime is conversation, that in itself speaks of a certain opinion, and one is easily led to the conclusion that either the alleged moderate Muslim majority does not disagree with Bin Laden’s airplanes, al-Zarqawi’s beheadings or Afghan executions or else the moderate Muslim majority does not exist and no religion has been hijacked, that this on the contrary is the true nature of the beast.
Oh tosh. You can’t surmise support from silence or inaction. More to the point, it is only your ‘supposition’ that Islam has been hi-jacked by terrorists. Have you considered that it does not look that way to most Muslims, who carry on their life as normal and do not see what the fuss is about.
Well I see a strong basis to agree that there is some ‘easily lead’ going on. Your better point though, is that no religion has been hijacked. The reason Muslims see that as true is that the conduct you mention is not representative of Islamic theology or carried by the support of mainstream Islamic leadership.
There are renegade muslims. Whoo hoo.
No. There are moderate and democratic Muslims. It’s just that the Muslim radicals hate them even more than they hate everything else (and that’s saying a lot). Just now, there’s a very courageous man in Denmark, Naser Khader, who has been one the major people behind a new organisation called Democratic Muslims, and just yesterday was revealed on hidden camera threathned with murder by a supposedly moderate Imam living in Denmark (one from the infamous Travelling Lying Imam Circus (TLIC)). This on top of all the other numerous death threats he has received, means he is the most threatened man in Denmark, and he and his family have to live under constant police protection. But that the radical Muslims try to tar every Muslim not like themselves as non-Muslims (another Imam from the TLIC even refused to shake his hand) don’t mean we should buy into their bullshit.
What puzzle me, is that the fundamentalists and radicals don’t seem to see that when they make it a question between either following the same vicious strain of Islam as themselves or being non-Muslim, they’re forcing a lot of Muslims away from Islam, and possible doing more harm to Islam than any other enemy could ever have. Apparently the fastest growing religion in Iran is Zoroastrism.
That may be the case in Denmark. But with great respect, that is not really a sufficient sample to form a general conclusion about the living religion of Islam.
That’s debateable. But was not the point I was trying to make. I was pointing out the big difference between the uproar of a few cartoons and the complete lack of uproar caused by all the awful things done in the name of Islam, which any moderate Muslim who loves his faith surely must look upon with complete revolution. When thousands and thousands protests one thing (e.g. insulting Muhammed in cartoons) but keeps silent on another like thing (e.g. terrorists insulting Muhammed by abusing his name) I think there is a difference that needs an explanation.
Were I a devout Christian and were people around the globe slitting throats and flying airplanes into buildings while screaming Jesus is Great! I would be immensely more concerned about that, than a few cartoons somewhere on the edge of the globe.
From the Associated Press:
You know, you’d think that after 6000 odd years God would be all grown up and able to take care of himself by this point.
My experience of the Islamic community is that this fairly describes its concerns too.
Well, I was speaking generally and not about Denmark. But the example I gave was Zoroastrism in Iran and I don’t know if it’s true. But it has been repeated numerous times on this board that Iranians have turned their back on Islam in great numbers after the Islamic revolution. I recently saw a report which said that more than two million Russian Muslims had converted to Christianity, and there was a clear connection between these conversations and with a radicalisation of Islam and Islamic terrorism.
Well, that depends on which country we’re talking about. The vast majority of Muslims in the US are tolerant and have a similar belief in freedom of religion as the rest of us. My question is specifically about Afghanistan. Is that country so intolerant that no moderate Muslim dares speak out? The local San Jose TV NEws intervied a transplanted Afghani national living here* who converted to Christianity as well. They had to hide his face, though, since he didn’t want to be identified. Does the long arm of Afghani intolerance reach that far?
*we proabably have the largest group of Afghanis in the US living here.
It appears that the populace there is that intolerant. http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2006-03-24T145944Z_01_SP13827_RTRUKOC_0_UK-RELIGION-AFGHAN.xml
I do hope your right and it’s not just a case of them not having enough politcal clout to impose their own views.
I’m curious, why do so many Muslims get upset at cartoons and a lone convert when there are thousands of Muslims being slaughtered in Sudan? What am I missing here?
CNN is reporting that he may be released in a few days.
Robin
He might be safer in jail, given what his fellow coutnrymen seem to be saying.
And of course, this just puts of the issue until next time. I understand that every country has to find it’s own way, and we can’t expect the Afghans to sudenly embrace western-style liberalism, but I sure would feel better if there was a sense that some fraction of that society wants to stand up for individual liberty.
sevastopol, I’m not a bigot and everyone knows that. What I meant with “I don’t care” is that I don’t give damn what you think.
You’re a sad example of penis-envy for the ‘West’.
Now, be a good boy and play with tiny pencil untill your mama tells you to go to bed. [hands above your blankie!]
Rune, congrats on Naser Khader, but I’m afraid for his life.
I can’t resist sharing this with you. [I was searching for apostate or ‘murtadd’]
From: http://www.mail-archive.com/islamcity@yahoogroups.com/msg06285.html
*NB: Read this link if you’d like to hear more evidence of the evil, fascist Dutch. *
Mmmm. I’d frown if someone came undressed to an interview.
Unless he’d look anything like John Cusack, ofcourse. 