I didn’t. I didn’t even think about it till I saw this thread and checked out the links. But as an actual film historian, I do get a bit bent out of shape when I see the intellectually lazy AFI blowing off pre-1940 films. It’s like listing “The Top 100 TV Shows of All Time,” and the only pre-1970 one is I Love Lucy.
Ivy, I’d have to do some real research, and I’m not at home with my books. But certainly Doug (hero) and Theda (villain) would be right up there toward the top.
#48 on a 50-name list is “high”?
I think it’s important to note that the list was compiled by taking votes from actors/directors/critics/etc. It’s not like a bunch of film historians sat down to create some all-encompassing list. And while silents may be a true passion for some people, the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of the public have little if any exposure to them (sorry Eve! :)). I know feel a bit lost on some of the characters listed because their films are from before my time, I imagine those listed reflect the general lifespans of the voters pretty well. I can’t imagine that they polled many people who were around, and old enough, back in the twenties or early thirties to legitimately list anyone pre-1935-40 or so.
Their list was The 100 Greatest American movies - and they never really defined what made a movie American or not. I think in some cases, they decided it was American because even if the stars and director were British, it was financed or distributed by a US company. American or not, Lawrence took fifth place.
I only saw the last hour of the show, so I don’t if my villain pick made the list at all. Robert Mitchum’s portrayal of Rev. Harry Powell in Night of the Hunter was one of the creepiest I’ve ever seen. He should be near the top of the list.
Of the 100, 28 were from films made prior to 1950 (lowering the bar slightly from Eve’s 1940 cut-off). (top of head–I didn’t check release dates). Not exactly a balanced distribution, but not a total blow-off of old films, either.
The good reverend was 29th on the Villain list.
We saw clips for Braveheart, so we thought William Wallace would have been #1.
I still think Schindler should have been #1. He played the politics and saved 1000 Jews from death.
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I think both characters may fall in between the hero villian status. Michael at the end of Part II was evil, He made hits that in some cases were not necessary except for his own need to assert his power. He is a far cry from his better self in Part I when he was doing it to protect the family.
Travis is an oddball choice on either side. True he had a weird stalking thing going and a desire to show he’s better than the scum on the street. True he was going to try to assasinate the candidate but his motivations for his true crime seemed more selfless in that he was out to save the prostitute.
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Many of the other villains of this list could fall under the mentally disturbed label such as Jack Torrence, Alex Forrest, Annie Wilkes, Cody Jarrett, Frank Booth, Joan Crawford, Baby Jane, the Joker, and yes Travis Bickle.
I think because he can evoke symapthy makes him more dangerous. You don’t suspect him so he can go on his merry killing spree without raising an eyebrow. Remember when this first came out The killer’s identity was a secret and surprise to the audience.
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I agree but what was the demon’s name again?
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No arguments here… McClane was the first hero I can remember that actually got hurt badly and became scared. He seemed mortal and that made the extrodinary stuff even better.
For that reason and the villian I love only the first movie in that series.
Also Hans Gruber should have been higher on the list. His character seems nothing special now but at the time he was the new typwe of villain, sophisticated, cool under fire and not insane. Now the clones of him make people forget what a great performance that was.
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The A in AFI is “American”… those films were foreign films and don’t count. A shame really because there are some great heros and villains not noted because of this… Aguire, M (from Fritz Lang’s M), Rotwang from Metropolis, The Captain from Das Boot etc etc.
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Damned Straight! How could he be overlooked when that performance still holds up. He could have easily replaced teh lamo “Man” from Bambi.
Also, why not use “Nazis” they are the greatest catch all villains in hollywood.
My thoughts exactly. One of the greatest heros in a western. Will Kane from “High Noon”, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, and John Wayne in “True Grit” (though I would have taken him from “Searchers”) were the heroes from westerns that I saw represented. I was amazed that Will Kane was not only remembered, but put so high (#5). Still, I don’t know how Clint’s Blondie just got left off.
Yeah, except in the case of “the man with no name,” they did put Angel Eyes from the same trilogy on the villians list! Not to mention they used Lawerence of Arabia (as someone mentioned above).
Nevermind. Misread the post. Angel Eyes isn’t on the list.
::slaps self on head::
Johnny Gray (Buster Keaton) from “The General” didn’t make the heroes list? Unacceptable.
Pazuzu.
Gesundheit.
Eve I know you mention Theda Bera but which role do you refer to which has remained with us all this time. This list is for the characters as ichons.
I too have studied film and don’t put much weight behind these lists but they are entertaining.
I know what you mean by the bias of the later half of the 20th century however only a few heros and villians from the early days of film have staid with us.
The Wicked Witch of the West is one for example that endures and she was in the top of the list for it. Dracula is another, and Lugosi’s interpretation although only in 2 films became to many, what the Vampire was like. Because his portrayal has stayed in the North American conciousness after 72 years and become more than just his two performances it has become an icon. It is these things the list looks at, not critical interpretation.
Also remember Many of the early silent films miss the 60 minute cut off. If shorts were included wouldn’t Tommy Bond’s BUTCH from Our Gang have made it on the list? After all Butch is the quintessential bully .
Here is the full list in PDF format.
(Yeah, I linked to it earlier, but since people are still saying “I didn’t catch the program, where was X” I thought maybe I should post it again.)
Actually, his attempt at killing the senatorial candidate stemmed from his failure to woo Cybil Shepard (who was working on his campaign). It had nothing to do with saving Jodie Foster’s prostitute character, IIRC. **
Well, yeah. I never said Norman Bates shouldn’t be on the list at all; I just said he shouldn’t be ranked so high. Characters who consciously choose evil are much more villainous than those who just plain can’t help themselves, IMO. **
Why do we need to know a name? Here’s what the entry should be: “The Demon – The Exorcist.” If the AFI can include entries like “Man,” “The Martians” and “The Shark,” there’s no reason why “The Demon” would be an invalid choice.
“Eve I know you mention Theda Bera but which role do you refer to which has remained with us all this time. This list is for the characters as ichons.”
Theda Bara as The Vampire in A Fool There Was. And yes, it’s available on video. If not the first villainess, the first influential one, and certainly the first evil siren in a major film—and a huge icon for film villainesses to follow.
I don’t think good-guy Terminator should be on the list at all. Especially considering the actual good guy from the Terminator-- you know, the guy who originally said “Come with me if you want to live.”-- didn’t make it at all.
The shark’s name was Bruce.
And that 's what’s so much fun about these types of lists-- picking them apart.