African Americans are owed no more by the US

Great Debates
1

This piece is written as I have just completed reading the story on Time Daily
(http://www.pathfinder.com/time/daily/0,2960,38907-101000208,00.html ).

The absurdity of anyone saying that African-Americans who exist today should be paid reparations for the slavery of their ancestors, has become the final straw to me. First of all, they demand payment by the US government for the enslaving of their ancestors, by the ancestors of “the Whites who enslaved them”. Excuse me? Correct me if I am wrong but your ancestors (Africans), were sold to the white traders by fellow Africans to start with. The slave trade began within Africa, was prolonged by rival tribes, and profited from by Africans. Tribal wars or more so the losers of tribal wars, became slaves. How dare they claim that the white man made them slaves, when in fact it was the black man who enslaved his own people and sold them for profit. The white slave traders didn’t begin taking slaves until bargains and pacts had been signed with rival tribes to do so. The best way to eliminate your worst enemy was to call the white slave traders and have them come take a fellow tribe that you paid them too. Even in high school during US History we all learned this. So who in the hell is suddenly trying to say that “whitey” did it and owes money (in modern day amounts) to modern day African-Americans, for ancestral slavery.

Second, my family arrived here in 1940, and rather than sit on their asses and collect welfare, or bemoan that had they not left they would have been slaves, or better yet been victims of ANOTHER genocide that everyone has forgotten, they worked. (We) never had any slaves, so why should my tax payer dollars, or anyone else’s who lives TODAY, be paid for HISTORIC acts . If anything picking lemons in Ventura for 10c a crate, on 14 hour days, is slavery itself. Every generation of my family has served in the military, never been on government assistance, and always treated all races fairly. But where does the bitching and whining of the few end?

In the article it mentions other groups who were enslaved, and have learned that “it happen(ed)” it was the past, deal with it, get over it, learn from it. Does modern day Egypt owe all Jews a couple trillion for their slavery? Are all former Chinese Railroad workers ancestors owed Billions? Do the Irish who worked alongside them have a special “restitution” due them as well? Does Spain owe the Americas hundreds of Trillions in reparations? I’m sure that we humans owe all ancestors and now extinct life-forms “restitution”. Who will represent the dinosaurs? Johnny Cochrane?

With as many GENERATIONS living on government subsistence, giving quotas (until recently) in hiring and education, and special programs, I think (we) have all paid enough as it is.

I want no more airtime dedicated to this foolishness, not for any minority group, anywhere, or vocal race or religion, to bemoan HISTORY. Its what happened, and its been dealt with, we moved on. We have all suffered somewhere at sometime.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. "
Jonathan Swift

2

There sure are a lot of "they"s and "we"s in that OP!

Elmer J. Fudd,
Millionaire.
I own a mansion and a yacht.

3

They= the groups demanding restitution

We= those they expect the money of, to inlcude all of “us” who had no slaves, ever, and “we” the taxpayers who would inevitable foot the bill.

Clear now?
Good

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. "
Jonathan Swift

4

This is from the article you didn’t seem to read, but you did post a link to.

That aside, the crimes discussed in Robinson’s book do not concern the acquisition of slaves but their treatment in transportation across the ocean and in the hands of slaveowners and traders on the continent, as well as the gross human rights violations black people have suffered since emancipation. You cannot hold rival tribes accountable for this, and as stated there is no real expectation of monetary compensation.

The point of the book and the article is that there is dirty laundry that needs to be aired - and maybe there is. However, none of the information in the article is news to me, or to many people. Everyone knows that lots of people have been hard done by, and the reality is that article is a review of a book in a slow news week. Get over it.

5

Well, I agree with you, Marvin. I’m completely against any society paying reparations to a subset of that society - be it Native Americans, Blacks, Germans, Irish, Jews, Mormons or Deformed Hill-People.

Any group asking for monetary reparations or other special treatment is belittling the suffering of their ancestors.

They deserve public apology from the Federal and/or State government which did them wrong and they deserve to have their plight historically noted and assimilated into the educational curriculum of the nation. That is all.

Yet to be reconciled with the reality of the dark for a moment, I go on wandering from dream to dream.

6

As you can tell, cooper, I didn’t read the article either.

Yet to be reconciled with the reality of the dark for a moment, I go on wandering from dream to dream.

7

Thank you Sake, cause as Cooper fails to note, its not all about the article, but the mindeset of those who wish to make it a reality.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. "
Jonathan Swift

8

Does special legislation for Indian Gaming also fall under this feeling of entitlement?
I think that can add seriously to this debate. That being because they are given tax breaks and given special concessions as is, and allowed to run Indian gaming, which for all other groups is outlawed in Ca.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. "
Jonathan Swift

9

Aren’t Indian reservations treated like “sort-of separate” territories from the States they are in? You know, kinda like how a U.S. military base which lies within California State Lines is actually not “part of” California, but is instead subject only to Federal jurisdiction, because it’s on land that was ceded completely to the Federal government by the California legislature at some time in the past.

If Indian reservations are similarly “distinct” from the rest of the State, would that provide some kind of justification for legalized gambling thereon?

10

If its not about the article, then don’t post a link to the article. I can’t see why you just want to beat up on a strawman though.

11

The talk of reparations should not be taken as “clearing the air,” or “exorcism.”

It now appears actual reparations will be paid to survivors and descendants of the Oklahoma Massacre about 80 years ago.

This occured when white folk from the poor side of town resented the fact that a wealthier part of town was filled with uppity black folk who actually appeared to be making an honest living and doing well for themselves. That section of town was basically destroyed. A truly horrid occurence.

Not that you and I should have to pay for it.

12

Agreed. Absolutely agree!

In the general history of slavery, in which ALL PEOPLES of the world have, at one time or another, been enslaved, never has any one race demanded and received such compensation for their hardships than the Black race.

In The States, where DISCRIMINATION IS ILLEGAL, it is acceptable for Blacks to have Black only television shows, Black only magazines, Black only beauty products, Black only music artists, and affirmative action. Not to mention the Black only Kwanzaa and the Black only Ebonics.

Should I start up a WHITE only magazine and name it something like ‘Cream’ (the opposite of Ebony) the feds would shut me down in days and the NAACP would be on my door with fistfuls of discrimination suits.

In the last 20 years the Black race has become one of the most imitated races in our history, but STILL harbor a deep grudge, fostered by groups like the NOI. Plus it is very noticeable that Jessie Jackson runs like hell to any Black person in trouble, crying discrimination and trying to make a big thing out of it, but ignores similar things happening to a White person.

No. As far as I am concerned, they are owed nothing more. No other race which has been enslaved has ever been compensated like the Blacks have and only America has done the compensation.

I treat a man like a man no matter what color he is, but start yelling at me about discrimination and things my ancestors did ages ago before I was born, and I’ll turn my back.

13

Abraham Lincoln pointed out that the Civil War was a divinely exacted reparation, that God might continue it “until all the wealth piled by the bond man’s two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn by the lash shall be paid by another drawn by the sward.” My guess is that the bond man still is a little short on that transaction. However, a fair settling up would be impossible. What about blacks who are themselves descended from slave owners, like the recently proved Thomas Jefferson descendants. Technically, they would owe themselves some reparations, or at least be entitled to less than than someone with no slave owning ancestors.
Hey, leave the Indians out of this. Their fate was, and is, an unmitigated, undeserved and unreparable disaster. Anything (gambling casinos, exclusive fishing rights(how about laying off the whales, though)) that can be done to make up a fraction of the loss that they have endured, is a minor karmic payback. Besides, they are a great example for the value of immigration laws.

14

The Civil War was not about slavery. Anyone that believes otherwise is whitewashing history, and failing to note timing and the timetables of events. The Civil War was a battle for political representation, equality in commerce and trade, equal taxation and the creation of a sliding scale taxing, and for the representation of Southern interests in the houses of congress. It was about making sure Congress didn’t railroad issues over the south that were northern interest “friendly”. When that FACT can be treated as such we can now see that the “noble” war we fought was a war of self-interest and greed that only served the North at the time. Plus let me ask this, how many Southerners that fought in the war owned slaves, or even cared about keeping slavery? How many southerners owned plantations? How many owned steel mills, controlled shipping, and trade as the North did? It-like many other wars was about $ and politics. Slaves were freed by Lincoln because at the time when the war effort was suffering, losses mounting, and interest in keeping the Union whole were waning, he need to pull in the swaying and liberal interests. What better than to appeal to the moderates and liberals to do the “human” thing and eradicate slavery? He waited for a big battle, with a Northern win, to announce his plan, for political reasons.

Anyone who has ever seen “Glory” and read any history what-so-ever knows that the North wasn’t the great white savior we are told it was. We only hear that version because as always, the winner writes the history, the loser is the history.

That aside. Back to my own OP.J

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. "
Jonathan Swift

15

A crucial point that Marvin brought up in the OP is that a great deal of us had ancestors that were still in Europe during the period in which slavery existed here. My family came over from Ireland three generations ago. Why should I have to pay for what someone else’s ancestors did to your ancestors, simply because the color of my skin is the same? That would just redefine the word “racism.”

The IQ of a group is equal to the IQ of the dumbest member divided by the number of people in the group.

16

I think the anger toward blacks - or any other group seeking reparations for past injustices - is seriously misplaced on this one. Let’s lay this one where it truly belongs - the plaintiff’s bar.

It is the plaintiff’s bar that drove the lawsuit and subsequent settlement against German companies that profited from the use of slave labor. It is also the plaintiff’s bar that is behind efforts to extract settlement money out of the Japanese for mistreatment of POWs. I could go on but…

It is very hard for me to imagine any of these groups or individuals within the groups deciding they want to be compensated for 50-year-old injustices. Clearly, these are instigated by the plaintiff’s bar - the scourge of modern capatilism.

Before I am flamed by resident attorneys on this board, I have no problem with the legal profession, only the plaintiff’s bar.

17

Hey! Lemme get some loot while we’re at it!

My Irish and Scottish ancestors were horribly abused by the English, even here in the colonies!

“The Irish Need Not Apply!” Sound familiar you limey fruitcakes? Eh? Eh?

And those damned Huns have been beating up my French ancestors since the days of Caesar; hell, they did it twice in this century! Hun bastards, with all your damned “Sieg Heil!” and goose-stepping parades, I betcha got some Victoria’s Secret under those frilly Prussian uniforms, you goofy little poofters!

So, all you Anglo and Germanic types out there- FORK UP SOME DOUGH! I’VE BEEN OPPRESSED! Er, my ancestors were oppressed, that is. Some time ago.

<FONT COLOR=“GREEN”>ExTank</FONT>
“Okay; don’t flame me too bad, and we’ll call it square. Fair 'nuf?”

18

This may or may not be true in those particular cases (Holocaust victims & interned Japanese-Americans), but the OP is referring to 130 year old offenses, of which there are no longer any living witnesses. I agree that you are probably correct, though, in blaming the lawyers for this.

If Native-American nations had legitimate treaties with the US government, then both should be bound to respect those treaties, though I doubt gambling was ever a guaranteed right… However, in the case of American slavery, I don’t see the point. It would be like the Scots suing the English government for their oppression during the Middle Ages.

19

Before I get flamed… Let me clarify that I agree with tracer, in that if a Native American nation is recognized with some measure of sovereignty, than it would make sense they might be exempted from gambling restrictions. I missed that my first read through…

20

Then try harder. POWs of the Japanese and slave-labourers in German factories are both living groups and I do assure you, from having involvement with both groups, that the desire for recognition of the injustice done, in the form of compensation, often grows stronger with the passage of time rather than weaker, and is particularly intense now as these groups both approach their last years and their last opportunities of redress.