After death, what then?

Great Debates
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I guess all of us here who are Christians have been instructed in at least the concern with the search for the true religion as the vehicle to getting on well in the after death existence.

On the other hand, my impression is that among Dopers here who are evidently Christians a good number I suspect seem to manifest an attitude of options in regard to which Christian group to belong to or to change to. Some have changed even to another religion, like Buddhism; some are contemplating to take this step and are studying which religion to move to for purposes more acceptable to one’s needs of practicality or psychology.

In effect, among a number of Dopers here who have been brought up in a Christian society and were practicing Christians, the search for the true religion does not seem to be a personal imperative, anymore.

To make a long story short, and at the risk of putting myself in an embarrassing spot, I would like to ask our religious authorities here on Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, and what other ‘isms’ there be with a numerous or easily accessible following, namely, what’s their teachings on the after death existence, if any.

As Christians, I guess we all know that there is heaven or hell waiting for us. Maybe that’s the teaching of religions adhering to a supreme deity, the monotheistic religions I mean, like Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. I know what Christianity offers after death, a little of what Islam offers, specially the part about seventy houris to cater to the faithful servant of Allah and follower of Mohammed (is the number right?). About Judaism, practically nothing, but it must be something similar, just like I imagine every religion where the supreme deity doubles as supreme ultimate judge of man.

Yes, those of you guys who know other religions, can you tell me what they teach about the lot of man after death, if they do have something to proffer in the event they do have a belief in the after death existence.

Since I seem to have lapsed into the attitude of not concerning myself with the true religion, I might it seems logical as well look for one where the after death bargain is the most sensible and possible. No, I am not cynical, but just being pragmatic.

You see, death is going to be our lot for the greater foreseeable future to which we all here belong , sad to say. So why not if for no other purpose than emotional comfort, look for the best deal any religion might have to offer.

Susma Rio Sep

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Great Debates, anyone?

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Since this calls for witnessing, I’ll move it to Great Debates.

Off to Great Debates.

DrMatrix - GQ Moderator

4

You do know that by using the phrase “After death” you have triggered an automated system that results in a big red light flashing on lekatt’s desk?

(only kidding, lekatt) :wink:

5

Although I’ve ticked the little box that says “Buddhist” on the census forms, I’m pretty much a practicing Orthodox Atheist of the First Church:dubious:. I don’t believe in life after death, in the same way that I don’t believe in gravity, quantum physics or creation. If it’s true, then it’s true - no skin off my nose. It’s not to say that there is an afterlife (hey, do we have any definitive eye-witness accounts?) but I would be quiet chuffed if there was.

My two cents is that if there was life after death, then it’ll happen to you even if you marry outside your religion, have sex before marriage or eat The Forbidden Fruit/Meat/Vegetable. I was never sold on the whole heaven/hell thing and don’t think much of the advice given by organised religion. There’s no point in worrying about what someone else thinks about it (do I see a paper peer review in a journal where people are debating the findings?). You might as well get your head down and do the best that you can in this lifetime.

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Crap, I think I just figured out to put up an empty post, which is what I would have preferred to do. Let’s see. . .

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**

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I don’t know, VarlosZ, I think your first post expresses the atheist view of the afterlife very well. Gave me the first good chuckle of my day.

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After death beliefs for:

Judaism: Good people go to heaven. bad people rot. There is no eternal “hell” as in Christianity. Some Jewish people believe in a sort of temporary hell, a finite retribution, not eternal. The afterlife is not a clearly defined concept in Judaism and “heaven” is not a goal of life. Anyone who is righteous goes to Jewish Heaven, not just Jews.

Hindusim: Reincarnation. your rebirth is determined by your karma. The goal is to acheive “samasara” and get off theb wheel of reincarnation. After samsara you return to Brahman, the Godhead, and become one with it.

Buddhism: various beliefs. Some believe in reincarnation, some believe in temporary heavens and hells, some , like Zen, simply have no concern for the afterlife. The Buddha said that concerns about life after death were irrelevant distractions that got in the way of enlightenment.

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Religious Tolerance.org - your first source for information on most of the world’s religions, generally written by practitioners of the faith.

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Dear VarlosZ:

Pardon my ignorance, but how do I get to read what’s in your spoiler, that big broad black band; it appears all black on my monitor. Once I thought by pressing shift and doing selecting over it, the text if any would appear as highlighted. It worked once in a thread where someone kept using such spoilers. Yours does not succumb to this trick.

Have a big laugh at my expense. Tell me then how to bring out the text in your spoiler.

And if you can help an ignorant brother, how does one do this kind of a trick in posting messages?

Susma Rio Sep

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It’s a joke, Susma. Notice that he specified it as the afterlife for atheism…i.e. nothingness.

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Thanks to all you guys, so far so good.

This is supposed to be a debate for being transferred to a debate forum by the moderator. Actually it is for me a very good and convenient and cheap way to getting some very productive interactive counselling, about whether there is life after death and what is the best bargain from what religion.

Diony mentions about the Jewish heaven where good guys go to, even the non-Jews. That is a very good bargain, except that for bad guys they go to rot. Diony, can you tell me what this ‘rot’ is. Do you mean by rot that the bad guys after death become extinct as in extinct species?

Informed Jews, please fill in my ignorance. Any informed learned Jews, and willing to share his faith, reading this thread? And what do you Jews say about Jews not being interested in heaven during their lifetime on earth; for Diony says: “and “heaven” is not a goal of life” for Jews.

Hinduism’s recurring reincarnation in order to finally get united with the Brahman, it seems too abstract an afterlife for me. I would much prefer to be my old self, but improved and freed of annoyances, having access to pleasures and the joys of an intellectual’s life as interest beckons.

About Zen’s enlightenment, will Buddhists of the Zen school just tell us what this enlightenment is all about. I presume us posters here just got to be enlightened about something. Can one be just generically enlightened? would that kind of an afterlife lot be attractive to me? What about you Buddhist Zen-ists?

You know, I have been invited to be a born-again Christian. Born again Christianity I can see offers the best bargain for getting to the Christian heaven in the afterlife. “Accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior and you are saved”, meaning you will get to heaven. Salvation by faith alone, no good works needed, all by the merits of Jesus. Then once saved, you are saved whatever wicked life you lead afterwards. That last one is difficult however to my intelligence.

Do I hear any born-again expert telling me that if your works are not good after being born-again, then your acceptance of Jesus as Lord and Savior must not have been genuinely sincere in the first place. There, that’s the trouble, how do I know I was sincere on that occasion? Make another and another declaration of acceptance?
What kind of an afterlife then would I be interested in? I think the best afterlife for all people concerned like myself should have the following features:

  1. The heaven must be concretely described as regards the goodies, just as God is concretely described in the Bible and among God-believers in His good aspects and in His ill-tempered moods.

  2. The hell must be temporary however long. A soul must be allowed to get back to this life, even without knowledge of his identity previously. This qualification will convince everyone to do good and avoid evil while on his earthly sojourn. Anyway the fear of earthly punishment from earthly law should be sufficient to scare bad guys from evil deeds.

  3. The way and the progress therein to get to heaven or to land in hell must be susceptible to certifiable monitoring, so that I would know where I really stand; and landing in heaven or hell must not be subject to chancy circumstances like getting killed in a sudden accident. If this should happen, then guy should have another chance.
    Please, all of us here, give me more ideas about what other religions teach regarding the existence of the afterlife and what afterlife it’s going to be.

Susma Rio Sep

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The only possible honest answer to this question.

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Basically yes. They have no afterlife, they are simply annihilated. In Jewish tradition the living will all be resurrected and judged at the end of the world (not yet). They are then judged and the good people get eternal life. The bad people are annihilated (sometimes they are described as being cast into fire but they are destroyed in the fire not tortured in it).

I practice Zen meditation, I hope I qualify. Enlightenment has aspecific meaning in Buddhism. It is a state of consciousness which transcends the ego (seen as an illusory “self,” not the real self). It is achieved while one is alive. Anyone can be enlightened and Zen, especially, is based on the precept that enlightment can be spontaneous.

The afterlife is not really a part of Zen teaching. It’s not that Zen teaches that it doesn’t exist, it just doesn’t have a position one way or the other. Many Zen Buddhists believe in reincarnation but it is equally acceptable to believe in a Western concept of heaven or in no afterlife at all. The goal of Zen is achieved in life. There is no official doctrine on the afterlife.

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What were you doing two hundred years ago? That’s what it’s like. Not so bad, in my view.

18

You are right, and the siren goes off also.

If you would like to know more about the subject, read what the people who have been there say, read the near death experiences.

If you do, you will notice that the experiences don’t match any religion’s beliefs. In my experience, I find there is no religion in the after death world. Religion is thought up by men.

What is there is logical, practical and easy to understand.
I realize many today are taught “when you are dead, you are dead.” This position has been proven wrong by controlled scientific studies, but it will be years before the skeptics get it.

Kevin Williams just wrote a book that might help. He runs the largest NDE website on the net.

However, you feel about it, it is a good idea to live honestly, with love and kindness for all others. Doing that will save you a lot of trouble later.

Love
Leroy