After many many years, a friends return to alcoholism. Anyone here have the same experience?

My friend was a raging alcoholic maniac in the 80’s, eventually got himself into rehab, cleaned up, got married, had kids, successful money wise, but now he is back on the booze. Been in and out of rehab these last 4 years. He’s in his 60’s now. Falling down, concussions, slurred speech( sober or not), hepatitis.

He doesn’t seem to really want to stop. Its agonizing to witness this tragedy. Last time I was on the phone with him, he had that same slurred blather his sister had some twenty years earlier. She died from alcoholism some time after I talked to her. Now I think the same is going to happen to him. :frowning:

This OP might not be in the right forum, but I have had a similar experience with a best friend of mine. I really don’t know how doctors or people that actually know what the hell they are talking about would say about alcoholism or the like, but with my friend, he used alcohol to fill a emotional gap he had within him. He drinks to excess (like sloppy falling over and gashing his head open, driving through church signs) when he is really emotionally wrecked. Is something like this happening to him?

Its important to remember that you can be there for your friend, but don’t do it at the expense of your own well being. My friend that goes through bouts of what your friend is going through is very close to me, probably the closest person in my life to me besides my wife. Sometimes I have to push him away too when he is going down that road.

I’m really sorry you are going through what you are TMifune. Its really rough. Probably what I have to say isn’t going to make you feel better, but I understand where you are all too well. What helps my friend get through his demons is focusing on at least one positive thing in his life and trying to make it multiply into something else, and then focusing on that.

This one will probably do better in our opinion forum–IMHO. Moved from Greneral Questions.

samclem, moderator

My honest opinion, as a former heavy drinker who’s been sober for almost 2 years, is that he’s made the choice, knows it’s killing him, and doesn’t care. I know that won’t be what you want to hear.

You can’t make someone stop if they don’t want to. You can’t, ultimately, keep someone alive against their will. If it’s hurting you too much to see him like this, the only real advice I can give you is to distance yourself from him. You can only make your own choices, not anyone else’s.

Sorry I couldn’t say something more positive.

Thank you for moving the post samclem.

And thanks for the replies. Its just surreal to see this happening again after almost 22yrs of sobriety.

Sober alcoholic checking in. This is a fairly common story in the rooms of AA–members with long-term sobriety relapsing and not being able to get sober again. They often die before their time. Word from the people who successfully manage to get sober again, and also from the ones who struggle to (in and out of AA, rehab, etc.), is that it is damn damn hard to get sober again. The disease is a progressive one, bodily changes certainly can be a factor. This is why you will hear many people in the rooms say, “I don’t think I have another one in me,” meaning they are not sure they could go through the agony of getting sober again after relapsing. Scary stuff, sobering even. Sorry you have to witness this.

A friend of mine is an alcoholic who went without a drop of alcohol for 25 or so years. He made a small fortune in business, raised two kids, etc. Once he was done doing things for others, he decided to do something he liked; drink. He explained his situation to his kids, wife, and friends and now he is drinking. He’s happy.

It is talked about in the Big Book of AA.

Well known occurrence.

A successful recovering alcoholic is one who dies after continuous sobriety of some length. If you go back out to drink, you really never made it.

They are the extreme but not unusual example of a periodic drinker.

70 years old, working on my 23’d year of sobriety.

I’ve seen it happen, and I fear it. In addition to being sober myself for over 23 years now, I’ve spent over 3 decades as a physician to alcoholics and addicts. I’ve seen what the disease does to people over time. I’ve also studied the medical literature on the topic very closely.

As has already been noted, the disease of alcoholism continues to progress even while one is sober. Now that doesn’t matter if the person doesn’t relapse, but if they do, they’re quickly brought to the point mentally, emotionally, physiologically that they would have been at if they’d kept drinking all those years. It can be very hard to escape from that pit.

It’s a common saying among recovering alcoholics: “I know I have one more drunk (bender, drinking binge) left in me, but I don’t know if I have one more recovery in me”. We know just how hard it was to sober up in the first place.

Not to derail this thread but what exactly does this mean? How can the disease of alcoholism progress without the presence of alcohol? Does this mean that if one had kept drinking they would be drinking X amount per day. If you quit and start again you will be drinking as much as if you had never quit? I just don’t understand the physiology of this.

Short answer: If it would have taken you 10 more years of drinking to get cirrhosis of the liver or alcoholic neuronal degeneration by the age of 50, but you quit at 40 and restarted at 49 (still free of those diseases), you’ll still get the cirrhosis or neuronal changes by age 50, not age 59. Rate of deterioration is much more rapid, after being exposed to the toxins after being free of them for so long.

Long answer: Much more complex.

I was hoping for the long answer :(. Can you link me to a few articles?

So alcohol isn’t not like tobacco regarding relapse ? Because I remember (but I might be wrong) that stopping smoking just stops the “cancer clock” on the lungs. Smokers who quit rather soon can enjoy a healthy life, even with the occasional cigarette.

It may help to go to alanon meetings. I’ve personally never gone but it may help you if you can meet others in similar situations.

I agree with pretty much everything above. It’s sad to watch but there’s very little you can do about it. There’s too much alcohol out there and too many hours in the day.

Well…that’s depressing. I too would be interested in the long answer or links with the long answer, if you have any. I had no idea this was the case. :frowning:

The evidence seems to suggest that quagtop is correct. I could give you case after case of alcoholics with 15 or more years of sobriety who went back to drining and often died within the first year. In less severe cases they may have a loss of job, friends and family but at any rate they seem to be where they would have been had they not quit drinking.

I think it’s also psycological. When someone returns to drinking, they usually very quickly – sometimes immediately – become obsessive and problemátic. It’s not like they go back to the starting point, or “reset” their drinking “career,” with light moderation.

I can see that the recidivist drinker might pick up right where he left off, but Mercotan seems to be going farther than that: If I understand him correctly, he is saying that the recidivist will be pretty much as bad off as if he had been drinking all along.

That’s quite a claim. I’m not sure I would call it extraordinary, but I would be very interested in seeing evidence for it.

Here is an alternative hypothesis:

Even without excessive alcohol consumption, your organs naturally deteriorate. Generally speaking, a 60 year old’s liver is nowhere near as good as a 20 year old’s. At the same time, someone who is completely sober for a long time will lose all of his physical tolerance for alcohol. So that if he falls off the wagon and starts drinking again after many years of sobriety, it will be a huge hit to his system. Psychologically, he may be picking up where he left off, but physically he is way behind the game. So he is extremely vulnerable to alcohol-induced physical problems like cirrhosis of the liver, perhaps as much as if he had been drinking all along.

I have no evidence to back it up but it does seem consistent with common sense.

Oh, I’m not at all doubting. That wasn’t a snarky “cite?” of disbelief, that was an actual request for more information because I don’t doubt it, and I want to learn (and be able to teach) more about it. I don’t often fall into a Appeal to Authority, but I know **Qadgop **knows what he’s talking about in this particular area of life. He’s probably a cheesehead Packers fan, so I won’t believe him when it comes to football :wink: , but I know he knows addiction, literally inside and out.

I’ve dug up a few scattered references, but not the ones I’m looking for which summarize the phenomenon. So I’m consulting a few of my peers, and will post more once I’ve got better data.