Or are dismissed as making excuses.
This sounds more like you already have the ability to read the minds of conservatives and don’t need to expend any effort trying to “see the other side”
Is this another attempt to read conservative minds or “see the other side”?
And you think that’s why he won? I disagree. I don’t think he won by bashing the media (something republicans have been doing for decades), or talking about draining the swamp (another thing republicans have been sayin for decades. The deep state crap is new but I doubt that had any effect on the election. I think he won because he was an outsider running against a weak establishment candidate that ran a bad campaign.
That’s actually just your opinion of why he won. A lot of people get their opinions and facts mixed up. That’s OK, both sides do it. Trump supporters do this all the time.
More mind reading. I see that you don’t need to “see the other side” because you already have perfect clarity.
I’m not sure why you are responding to my post.
Others think the way around this is to strive to make those assumptions true. Increase information transparency, reduce barriers to entry, improve competition. In fact most of our regulations are designed to do exactly this.
The 1933 and 1934 acts are designed to improve information to investors, the whole of wall street operates under this regime.
The SBA, FCC, USTR, etc are all tasked in part to reduce barrier to entry.
The DOJ and commerce department keep an eye on anti-competitive practices.
The primary problem with how capitalism operates in today is not any of those things (IMHO). It is how the investor class has managed to capture the political class and the manager class and worked things so that a disproportionate share of the increases in productivity have gone to them and almost nothing to labor. There are already global economic forces that would have put great pressure on labor as it is but this really buried them. We need a labor movement in this country.
There are a lot of lies about economics and they are told by both sides but not equally so. A very large portion of the right tell these lies while only the far left tell them (AFAICT).
These seem like attempts to characterize “the other side” rather than “see the other side”
It is better to be rich white and guilty than poor black and innocent.
I think the inheritance tax should be a mark up at death so that all unrecognized gains or losses are recognized. This is such a huge tax break for rich people its kind of obscene. Then we should have a generous threshhold for exemption from taxation of inheritances, some number high enough that anyone that complains looks like a greedy fucking pig. Right now the exemption is almost $12 million… TWELVE MILLION FUCKING DOLLARS!!!
The tax preferred generational transfer of wealth has done more to support white supremacy than any other factor in my opinion. If each generation of white people had to earn their privilege through effort and hard work, there would be more economic parity.
Like I said, it is not good to forget history. The mistake from many conservatives is to think that there are only paternalistic attitudes from progressives there instead of looking at evidence at what colonialism and neocolonialism did/does to less developed nations.
Are you kidding here? This post is needlessly contrary. The kinds of policies I am talking about here ARE regulations - you see to be angrily agreeing with me.
I agree that colonialism is the primary reason for a lot of the clusterfucks in the world. That is why I brought up white man’s burden. White man’s burden was the rationale or justification for a lot of colonialism.
What exactly do you think we are disagreeing about here?
I won’t derail this thread with another rant about the problems caused by woke white folks engaging in this same type of paternalism.
A labor movement - which will give workers political power - so that their representatives in government legislate in their interest - by instituting policies and regulations to govern how corporations treat their employees.
Angry? I don’t think so… but if you say so.
I wasn’t even disagreeing with you. I thought you were saying that the market is broken so we need social programs (I thought that was the context of the comment you were responding to). I was saying that if the market is broken we need market regulation. If you were saying the same thing as me then I agree with you agreeing with me.
Tone doesn’t travel well over the internet. We are in agreement.
Well, too late as you brought your hobby horse in already. It is however important to see what makes the other side think about how to deal with the issues of today, and one has to be aware of how “the other side” is also driving the narrative.
The origins of woke, in this context – as forged by African American communities – dates back at least to the 60s, but its mainstream ubiquity is a recent development. Fuelled by black musicians, social media and the #BlackLivesMatter movement, the term entered the Oxford English Dictionary only in 2017, by which time it had become as much a fashionable buzzword as a set of values. Some of those who didn’t keep up with the trend felt left behind: if you didn’t know the meaning of woke, you weren’t.
Rather than rejecting the concept of wokeness outright, today’s detractors often claim they are rejecting the word as a signifier of pretentiousness and “cultural elitism”. However, as Fox and others have shown, it is as much to do with the issues of racial and social justice. Criticising “woke culture” has become a way of claiming victim status for yourself rather than acknowledging that more deserving others hold that status. It has gone from a virtue signal to a dog whistle. The language has been successfully co-opted – but as long as the underlying injustices remain, new words will emerge to describe them.
As we said, this is based on our lived experience. This is what I see. If I’m to avoid giving you a laundry list of anecdotes, then you get a loosely sketched characterization.
But then, you already knew that.
This seems a lot like you dismissing me by saying I am being brainwashed by the right? It is possible for people to disagree with you without being under the thrall of Rush Limbaugh.
Woke got it’s negative connotation from people who were overly woke behaving badly. Not from conservatives pretending that overly woke people were behaving badly.
Lived experiences?
Isn’t that what Mrmrmrm is giving us? His lived experiences? But his lived experiences are meaningless anecdote and your lived experiences are the basis for policy?
I don’t have to read anybody’s minds - I read their words. Conservatives consistently* say that people should have to live with the consequences of their actions. This goes along with something else they say: that they earned what they have and deserve to get to keep it and do with it as they wish.
Now, there are a few different ways to reach these beliefs. One way is to be a greedy sociopath - “Screw you; I got mine.” Another way is to be raised in a religion that proposes a “just world” - If someone* falls on hard times, it is not unfair; they deserve it, and it would be wrong to help them.
It’s worth noting that not all conservatives are, in fact, complete monsters, which means that when they are literally and personally introduced to somebody in trouble, they might want to personally help them, even at cost to themselves. This does not necessary extend beyond their monkeysphere, though, and they might feel that personal charity is okay, but the government should never help anybody ever - since it would result in their taxes being used to help people they don’t care about, and who they can’t feel personal pleasure from the act of helping.
*until they are the ones suffering bad fortune, that is. Then they have a marked tendency to change their tune and make an exception just for them. (“The only moral abortion is my abortion”, and somesuch.)
That’s description is really on accurate of a small sliver of far right conservatives Painting all conservatives that way is a bit of a caricature of conservatives.
Conservatives do the same thing with corner case progressives.
Both sides do it.
Small sliver? Got stats?
Uh… riiiiiiiiiiiiight. 
There are 75 million trump voters. Can you cite any appreciable number of them behaving this way.
I’m saying that your anecdotes are no more useful or valid than anyone elses.
I never said they were, so great detective work there. You’re all over this.
To keep it on subject, it is important to notice how the right wing propaganda works, there are more references about how the right does turn definitions made by liberals that describe what they see as important into disparaging remarks or memes. Ignoring that what they are doing is how ‘the other side’ does attempt to divide progressives. It is not only propaganda but it is noticeable that such juvenile tactics do get to be swallowed by some moderates out there, it is still though mostly bouncing around on right wing echo-chambers.
Woke
Woke as a political term refers to a perceived awareness of issues concerning social justice and racial justice. It is derived from the African American Vernacular English expression “stay woke”, whose grammatical aspect refers to a continuing awareness of these issues. Its widespread use since 2014 is a result of the Black Lives Matter movement. The alt-right and reactionaries use the term “woke” as an anti-progressive smear against an individual or a corporation promoting a socially progressive message.
Rational wiki does also points at the alt right also using “Get Woke, Go Broke.” for years to disparage companies like the NFL, NBA or Coca Cola or the NAVY that respond to social issues.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Alt-right_glossary#Get_woke.2C_go_broke
The phrase Get woke, go broke is a right-wing form of schadenfreude, specifically directed at media or cultural ventures that lose money and/or popularity when they become (if they weren’t already) woke. This phrase is repeated in a mocking sense ad nauseam in online forums and social media circles frequented by the alt-right and neoreactionaries whenever a “woke” venture goes “broke”. Interestingly, users of this phrase seem to stay quiet when woke ventures succeed.
This phrase can also mean that things that are “woke” have become morally and intellectually bankrupt, but the former usage is far more common.
And since Rational Wiki is not supposed to be relied on like the other Wiki, it has to be noted that this has been reported in other places, the disparaging of the term and the “go woke, go broke” line is a con from right wing sources, they are the ones that exaggerate or lie to make the victims or the ones adopting changes “the ones that are at fault”.