Aikido

In My Humble Opinion
1

You all know the story by now. I’m out of work. Mom is on the brink of death. My fiancée decided she didn’t want to get married. I’m in the process of selling most of my stuff – sort of ‘starting clean’, as it were. But I need something else.

I’ve been interested in aikido for a number of years, but never got around to learning it. My right leg doesn’t go all the way back because of a skiing injury. The same incident cost me the ability to move my right great toe upwards. A car wreck exactly a year later claimed part of my left patella, and I’m missing the tendon. I cannot extend my left leg fully under its own power, and without the tendon it won’t support my weight beyond a certain angle. I’m also overweight.

In my car-selling seminar was a girl (who looked so remarkably like my former fiancée that they could have been sisters) who is a cop and tae kwan do enthusiast. With my legs, I can’t see myself doind a lot of kicking. She introduced me to another cop in the class who is a martial arts instructor. He suggested I look into judo, since it’s not as violent as aikido. (He explained that judo is more of a tournament thing, while aikido is more self-defense oriented. He demonstrated a judo move, then showed a similar aikido move that could result in the breaking of a bad guy’s elbow.) I looked in the phone book for a judo dojo, but didn’t see anyone advertising one. I did find an aikido class.

These are my goals:
[ul][li]Mental discipline. I’m going through a rough time right now, and I need some focus.[/li][li]Physical fitness. I’d like to think that learning a martial art will help me lose weight.[/li][li]Something to do other than sit around reading The Straight Dope, putting things on eBay and watching telly.[/li][li]Self defense? I don’t think I need to learn it. Even in the seediest parts of L.A. (when I lived there) I never felt the need to protect myself. Still, I guess there’s nothing wrong with learning it.[/ul][/li]Besides, I might meet a grrl. :wink: (No, I’ve given that up.)

Given my physical condition, am I a good candidate for aikido?

Just to answer before it’s asked, tai chi seems to slow and sedate for me.

2

My wife and MIL are both black belts. They train in the West Coast USAF style. I’ve been to lots of tests, and lots of old dudes with guts are high black belts. Lots of folks in their 60s and 70s doing it. It’s a great workout. The biggest problem i see is sitting in seiza (sp)? That would roach my knees. Plus people get hurt. It’s pretty physical. But I think you’d fit in just fine. Give it a shot. It’s also very spiritual, which would help you in these tough times, I would think.

3

I study Tae Kwon Do myself. While I’d like to get into Aikido one day, I don’t know much about it. Nor am I a doctor, so take this with a tablespoon of salt :slight_smile:

The way I see it: it’s a martial art, and it’s violent. While your physical condition shouldn’t automatically disqualify you, you have to look at the potential risks. In my very inexpert opinion, you’re risking a lot on that knee; especially since you’re not in good shape currently.

I’d suggest you go down and talk to the instructor about it, though. I may be wrong and he’ll definitely know more about the sport. If you can talk to a doctor about it too, that’s probably not a bad idea.

4

Damn this head cold & those Patriots!!

I mean the art - he’ll definitely know more about the art.

ahh well.

5

Apologies for the length of this. I’ll talk for hours about martial arts if given the chance. I’ve got 8 years of tae kwon do experience, several months and counting of shotokan karate, and just started aikido a month ago.

With regards to your injuries: Go to the dojo you’d consider training at, and talk to the sensei there. Explain that you’ve got a couple injuries, explain what you can and can’t do. They’ll probably be willing to work with you anyway. You probably won’t be able to do all the techniques, or you’ll have to modify some, but if you’re willing to do the work, you’ll probably be able to.

Aikido is a highly spiritual, traditional art. Lots of meditation/breathing exercises, lots of bowing, lots of focus. You’d get some sort of self-discipline out of any martial art - really, any sort of serious athletic training - but probably more from aikido than most others. It does depend, of course, on both the dojo (are they hardcore traditional? What age group is their main focus? etc), and how much you put into it.

Depending on what sort of physical fitness you’re after, aikido may or may not be the best option. It’s a passive, defensive art. You don’t start an attack in aikido, you manipulate your attackers’ to use their movements against them. Judo is fairly similar in this regard, AFIAK. You’ll get a decent workout - especially if you aren’t in great shape to begin with - but once you get to a certain point, you won’t get a whole lot of cardiovascular benefit from it. You don’t need to be particularly strong to do aikido. It helps to have more mass on your body, but pretty much anyone can do it (I, for one, am just five feet tall and skinny). Again, it depends on how much you’re willing to put into it. If you train six days a week, you’ll get into better shape faster than if you train twice a week.

In terms of self defense, it will give you a slight edge over someone with no training. After even a couple months, you’ll likely replace some of your ‘panic’ instinct with a ‘reaction’ instinct when someone throws a punch at you. Any traditional martial art, though, is not self-defense. If you want self defense (which it doesn’t sound like you do) look into, say, BJJ, krav maga, or pepper spray. I know I’m slightly less likely to be a victim with my training: I’ve spent countless hours sparring, I’ve taken some nasty blows, and I know how to hold myself to reduce the look of ‘easy pickins’. I don’t, however, think that if I get mugged on the street I’ll be able to kick some ass - I’ll be able to fight, fight dirty, enough to get away, scream, and run like hell. A lot of ethically-gray martial arts instructors sell their style as self-defense, this is misleading and dangerous.

essvee said people get injured. This is true, and it’s true for any martial art, and any contact sport whatsoever. In aikido, you’re less likely to go home with a bloodied nose or black eye than in TKD. You’re more likely to go home with an overextended elbow, or a dislocated shoulder, and at the beginning, a sore and bruised back, shoulders, and hips are an absolute given, from learning to fall properly. Accidents happen. But so long as you and your classmates have some mediocum of control and respect for each other, you won’t get hurt badly. A certain amount of pain is guaranteed: as one of my TKD instructors was fond of saying, “if you don’t leave class sore in at least one spot, you’re not working hard enough.”

Now that all that is out of the way (I’m almost done, I swear), I recommend you do try out TKD. Most dojangs will offer a free introductory lesson or two - try it, see what you can do. I’ve got no basis for this, other than loyalty to my primary art, and the fact that TKD is insanely fun. Also, if you do want less of a striking art, perhaps look into hapkido. It’s another korean art, sort of similar to aikido. It’s not uncommon to run into dojangs that teach both TKD and hapkido - you may want to see if there’s anything like that in your area.

6

Thanks for the replies so far; especially NinjaChick’s long one.

I was under the impression that tae kwon do was more of a kicking thing. The woman in my seminar was limping because the over-extended a kick. I’m not looking for a kicking thing, because my left leg won’t support me reliably enough and, since I’m missing the tendon, I don’t think it would be good as the kicking leg.

Here’s something I just thought of: My hiking staff is just under five feet long. Might be fun to learn how to use it defensively. (As NinjaChick noted, I’m not actually looking for a self defense course.) It also might be fun to learn some kendo moves, since I have a katana. (Man I wish my old friend would sell me my 16th Century wakizashi back!)

Funny thing about falling. I have some practice at it. I was dog-sitting once, and hit the edge of the road ‘just wrong’ when I was taking her out for a walk. Left leg buckled, and I went down backwards. I just rolled into it. A passerby said it looked like I knew how to take a fall. :stuck_out_tongue:

I’m not looking for six-pack abs or huge muscles; just general fitness, with a bit of weight loss. I used to jog 45 minutes every weekday (back and forth in my lower-level apartment, to the tune of k.d. lang, the soundtrack from 1941 or just KROQ on the stereo), do about 25 push-ups, and 120 sit-ups. Then I got a computer. :smack: I’d be hard-pressed to do that now. If I’m going to ‘get a workout’, it will have to be outside the house and away from the computer. It also has to be fun, which rules out going to a gym.

7

Sorry bout this, didn’t think it would be such a long post (so appologies in advance. :D)

Im going to suggest you rethink aikido if you’ve got a bum knee and arn’t in particularly good shape. While it depends on the instructor and how much time and effort they (and you) are willing to put into modifying the training, you really do a lot of work while ON your knees.
I know that where I trained, half the bloody warm up involved a lot of time supporting yourself in a squat. Aikido has you doing a lot of arm/leg locks while bringing the opponent down in a controlled manner, so you tend to “follow them down” as it were when you do a take down. This results in the need to basically be able to move in a squat, that is almost completely on your knees. It can be pretty bad until you get the hang of it and develop the required muscles. Its even worse if you start off with bad knees. Im telling you this from experience.
Theres also a whole set of sweeps and trips that require fairly good lower joint strength. Again, NOT something that you want to risk if your muscles/joints arent able to support it.
Have you thought about something like boxing? Definitely will get you into shape, develops a serious amount of discipline and focus and will allow you to get into sufficient shape that you would be able to move onto some of the other martial arts if you so choose.
Plus its got the advantage that you get to do bag work from fairly early on which is definitely good for stress relief.:smiley: I’ve done 2 types of Kung Fu, Aikido and some Judo and in all the classes Ive been to, the emphasis is usually on forms and LIGHT sparring at least till you get up a little on the levels. (For some odd reason the students get all upset if they get beat up too soon into the lessons. :D)

Also, PLEASE keep in mind that while any serious fighting style (western or eastern) requires you to learn to focus and control, if the place you are looking at is trying to bill it as some sort of “enlightenment” take a good HARD look at who’s teaching it c(Shaolin monks are very rarely to be travelling around righting wrongs and teaching martial arts. :wink: ) If you want to find some sort of moral/spiritual guidance, go to a priest (of your choice) not a dojo.
Having said all this always keep in mind YMMV.

8

Got a reply to my e-mail from the aikido school. The head instructor said that the knees will be a problem; but ‘With some relatively simple instruction and judicious application of the instruction, the right knee will in all likelihood become a non-issue in a relatively short time frame’ and ‘With instruction and judicious application of the instruction the left knee should become a non-issue. I’ll want to see what function has been impaired before getting you too optimistic.’

9

Johnny, I trained in Aiki for around 5 years. As the instructor stated, I would see your injuries as a real issue until you could get some more extension in them. Whenever I had a minor injury to the legs I found myself sitting out of the class rather than aggravate the issue. That said, go along and see how you feel.
It will keep you fit so long as you attend 2-3 classes a week, your technique will improve dramatically if you go regular. Focus wise, yeah, it’s great, but they all are as Ninja said. Mutual respect and discipline are probably the greatest effects I received from the training. Stress went right down too.
Defence wise, IMO it’s probably one of the hardest arts to learn. The techniques do not rely on strength at all, in fact if you use strength you’re doing it wrong. Experts are very proficient defending themselves, but it takes a while. If you want to be able to defend yourself (but I don’t believe this is one of your requirements) go TKD or karate, you’ll get a much faster curve.
In short, all arts have their merits but I personally loved Aikido…

Begs the question why I don’t do it now… long story but in short I think I’ll find a local school and trot along this week.

Wow, thanks! and good luck in whatever you do,

10

For bad knees, I would personally recommend the style I’ve trained in:

Matsumura Seito Shorin-Ryu

Which is japanese for: Okinawan Karate as taught by Matsumura (more or less anyway)
My sensi refered to it as: Old Man’s Karate, as it’s very low impact with focus being put more on the ‘art’ rather than sport or self-defense. That, and old men are able to do it :slight_smile:

The official site for the actual school is here. If you email them, i’m sure they’ll be able to tell you if there is a dojo near your location. Or, if not, if there is a compairable style somewhere near.

I myself, have a bad knee, and i had no problems with the style. Granted, it’s not a MAJORYLY bad knee, but it hurts as i type, so it’s not great either.

In general, i wouldn’t recommend TKD (or Take-sum Dough, as my sensi refers to it :wink: ) or Judo, as both are “sports” and the focus is on competition, where injuries are MUCH more likely to occur.

Otherwise, any ‘true’ karate style would probably do. Jest make sure that the focus of the school isn’t on “sport competition” or self-defense.

If you look into Shorin-Ryu, let me know what you think of it. Personally, i really like it.

11

I think there’s been a lot of good advice here, but let me throw out one more very important suggestion.

Go talk to a doctor about your legs. If not someone specialized in sports medicine, then your general practitioner. Ask them about what sorts of activities they would recommend against, and what risks are carried with those activities.

I’m sure the sensei can give you a rough idea of whether you are capable of keeping up with the class, but I would not trust his judgment enough for him to say whether the class would actually be good for you. Let’s not get all carried away with the “martial arts masters have a keen understanding of the body, because the power to destroy is the same as the power to heal” comic-book type of stuff. If all the kneeling and squatting and stuff blows out one of your wheels, it is you who will have to deal with it for the long term, so getting some proper medical advice would seem prudent.

-Ravenman
(Hapkido black belt)

12

No job = no insurance = no doctor. What a wonderful health care system we have! :rolleyes:

13

I completely agree, the system really, really stinks.

However, let me throw two more ideas at you. First, if you’re going to spend $100 a month to take martial arts lessons, paying out of pocket to see a doctor before you sign up for lessons might be a good use of money. Second, you might want to plan what you might do if you do get injured in a class. There are plenty of statistics that say practicing a martial art is less dangerous than many other sports, but accidents do happen: a fellow black belt in my class broke his foot two weeks ago.

I don’t mean to be down on you joining an aikido class, but given your medical situation, I don’t think that it would be wise for you to jump right in with both feet based upon the opinions of some Dopers and the (most likely) unexpert opinion of the instructor.

Also, on another note, be sure to visit the class before you sign any contract. You might go, watch a class, and realize the instructor is a jerk, or something like that, and that might take your decision in a different direction. Best of luck to you!

14

Ah, yes. Contracts.

If it’s at all possible to avoid signing a contract, do so. It’s OK if you have to, but be sure to read it carefully. If there’s anything about a guaranteed black belt in x amount of time, a limit to the number of classes you can attend, a promise to teach you Real Ultimate Power for $500.00, or anything else that seems fishy, ridiculous or just odd, flee.

15

The place I’m looking at doesn’t have contracts. It’s $60/month.

16

I was going to suggest kendo when I read the OP. The kendo class meets right after my shotokan practice, and it would seem to me that you could manage without much leg flexibilty. Plus, you get to use a cool sword and don’t have to be associated with Steven Segal. Failing that, you could always check out Rex Kwan-Do (Rex Kwan-Do uses the buddy system, no more flying solo!)

17

Others have offered some excellent advice, but I saw a couple of things that made me squirm a bit.

Most forms will eventually get into weapons use (well, kenpo, tae kwan do, et cetera) but the underlying assumption is that you first know how to handle that big pink weapon that your brain resides in. Before you can handle any weapon, you need to learn form, control, and balance, or you’ll be as dangerous to yourself and bystanders as you’ll be to anyone else. That said, a quarterstaff or cane is an excellent weapon to train with, if for no other reason than it can be carried in the real world practically without restriction. Try that with nunchuku or a pair of sai. (But officer, I was just going to move some rice bales!) It’s also a lot of fun. I’ve trained a fair amount with the hook cane, and it’s a surprisingly effective weapon. (If you want to see what someone can really do with one of these, check out the old Jackie Chan movie The Big Brawl.)

This is the one that really made me wince. I’ve done a bit of edged weapon training (primarily the Sykes-Fairbairn “commando dagger”, the kabar-style knife, and short machete) and a blade, and especially a long sword, is far from the first weapon you should learn to use. I doubt there are many people, even n[sup]th[/sup] degree black belts, who have trained sufficiently with a sword to handle it with the kind of control and care it requires. For my money, an unsheathed sword is more dangerous than a cocked, unsafed autoloading pistol. A properly sharpened sword will remove fingers before you even realize they’re missing, and a dull sword is even more dangerous.

Kendo is good for training though. Just don’t think that a few months is going to prepare you to pick up a real blade. Just IMHO.

Stranger

18

While someone else got close, I’d like to recommend the following: just go and ask if you can watch a couple classes. Either pick a time when two or more classes meet one after the other, or go back a couple of times. You’ll then be able to see for yourself what goes on and whether or not you think your knees will be able to handle it.

That should be the best experiment to see if it will be a good fit for you.

Also, start working on getting your knee back into shape. It’s entirely possible that your stiffness can be cured through some homestyle PT, but then again, it might not be. I would also recommend checking to see what the doctor says.

Even if it takes you X months to get your knees in order, your fitness level should be high enough that you can get through a class with no problem.

Good luck.

19

I’ll second ** Stranger on a Train ** with his comments re. swords. Resist the impulse to do a little practice with the katana…! I’ve cracked my head on many occassions with a bokken and that’s just wood. If real, I’d look like something out of the Thing.

20

Nobody said anything about starting out with kendo, or using a real sword to learn on.