I’m not trying to take devil’s advocate; I’m just trying to elucidate my opinion that a flight attendant isn’t an automatic bitch for not helping someone with their luggage. Maybe this one was (from the narrative, she sounds like it), but I don’t know.
Or something that would come from a no doubt well-paid United legal team.
The conductors sounded like good guys. But the fact that it never occurred to you that someone may not be around to help you with your personal baggage says, to me, that you treated the situation with some kind of unspoken entitlement.
Who really cares? The response here is way out of line with the reality.
So the attendant doesn’t help you. Is it really that hard to turn to someone nearby and say “excuse me sir, can you help me put my bag up? I have a physical condition that prevents me from doing it myself?”
No doubt you will get help and it will have the exact end result as if the flight attendant had helped.
So the flight attendant was a bitch, and you have to say one sentence to a stranger? What a reasonable person does is go home, write a letter to the company, get some free air miles or whatever and deal with life. Maybe you might write to some disability advocates to see if they think this is a pressing issue they need to start working on.
What you don’t do is write a million word “life is soooooo unfair” LJ entry, bust out in tears and rage at some customer service rep, get so flustered you are apparently no longer able to use public transportation and generally become huffy at everyone.
I have a hard time taking this account seriously. Am I really supposed to believe that a 29 year old woman got a “disapproving look” for ordering a whiskey and coke? Am I supposed to feel shocked that a wheelchair and attendent were not just hanging around waiting for her even though she “specifically requested” one? OMG you had to wait for something at an airport?! Unheard of!
It sounds like she went into the customer service area huffy and irrational, and was shocked- shocked- when people didn’t drop what they were doing and realize the injustice and emotional intensity of having to talk to a stranger, get looked at when ordering a drink, and wait ten minutes for a special service she “specifically requests.”
Chances are they never see complaints like this since a rational person would recognize that the low-level peons at the customer service desk probably can’t actually do anything about your problem and it would be best to write a letter that might get seen by someone with some power. Of course they just want her to get out of there and direct her rage at someone who could possibly change things. But I bet change isn’t even what she wanted. She wanted to dump this emotional stuff on someone and have them cater to it. Well, it didn’t happen. Boo hoo.
From what do you gather that assumption? She expected nothing more than what airlines are required to do by the Air Carrier Access Act: wheelchair transport in the airports and assistance with her baggage. That she points out that the transport wasn’t timely, that she was forced to stand in the security line (which exacerbated her pain) and was forced to stand again in the jetway in San Francisco points out additional failures on the part of United to properly provide the services that they are required to make available.
They’re subject to the Air Carrier Access Act, but not the ADA.
Per federal law, flight attendants (or some employee of the airline) has to help in some fashion. They cannot fob service to passengers with disabilities off to whatever kindly stranger is willing to take that liability upon themselves. (And no doubt United would disclaim any responsibility if the man who ultimately helped this woman with her bag suffered an injury as a result of lifting it.)
Per federal law, the airline is required to provide wheelchair transportation to her seat on the plane, not the gate area, not the door of the jetway. They’re also required to provide assistance in boarding.
A wheelchair that doesn’t show up until the passenger is in danger of missing her flight isn’t very helpful. A passenger who has difficulty walking or standing for long periods of time shouldn’t have to stand and wait in the security line, and there’s no logical reason why she couldn’t have been wheeled right to the metal detector. Explaining the consequence of not being given that transportation is essential to understanding why the policy (if it is indeed a policy) of not wheeling passengers through the security line is deleterious to those who need assistance. What she experienced was unacceptable.
No, we’re to believe that being made to wait 20 minutes for a wheelchair to arrive, when one should have been there as soon as the plane doors opened was unacceptable, whether it happened by accident, oversight or intentional slight. And because that is the airline’s responsibility, they need to know that it occurred and follow up with their staff on the ground at SeaTac and SFO to ensure that gaps in communication, etc. about passengers needing assistance do not occur regularly.
No, and she doesn’t suggest otherwise. She is able to stand and walk, but not for long periods of time or for long distances. Again I ask: why couldn’t she be wheeled right to the metal detector.
I have no idea what this means, but the fact of the matter is that her level of disability is not anyone else’s to judge. She has a life-limiting injury. Exaggerated as the story may be, angry as she may be, United failed to live up to the requirements of federal law when they failed to give her the assistance she requested.
It’s not about whether someone was a bitch or not. It’s about UA’s stated policy making a clear connection between their flight attendants and help with carry-on baggage and your trying to justify them blowing her off based on semantics.
Yeah, that’s sort of my point. I’m not disabled and I’ve always BEEN OFFERED help, on buses and trains, when my luggage was HEAVY. This girl needs help, her luggage is relatively light, and the employees not only won’t help her, they won’t assist her in finding help. It’s not about entitlement, it’s about the fact that this is not a particularly unforeseeable request. It’s not out-of-line to assume that there will be someone around to assist people- especially in the case of someone who is physically disabled.
After this thread, though, as a relatively-strong physically-able young person, I’m going to be more proactive about offering help on planes and such to people who look like they may need it.
Similar situation? Not sure. Anyway, there was a father and a maybe 8 month old infant boarding the plane with me. The Dad had a broken arm and was trying to navigate both the baby and the baggage. Not much luck. Anyway, he asked the stewardess if she would mind holding the baby while he got settled. Very apologetically, she explained that she wasn’t allowed to, for whatever reason. Anyway, any number of passengers, myself included, jumped in to help him out. I felt bad for the stewardess because, obviously, she was covering her legal ass. Oops, dropped the baby or somesuchthing. Just sayin’
I think I remember announcements before a flight saying that heavy objects go in the overhead bins while light objects go under the seat, and it did strike me as counter-intuitive for the reason you stated. Do I remember right? Because if so, not only does every airline allow wheeled bags in the overhead bins as you say, but they even suggest it.
In my experience – I can’t reach the bins at all – the flight attendants either are happy to put it up there or, quite often, say that they can’t but they ask somebody else to. It’s never been anything like a problem. I wonder what this woman’s attitude was from an outside perspective. She reminds me the people who say that they always get bad service while being nasty to the cashier (or whatever) and nitpicking the service they do get to death so that it seems horrible.
I’m a bit conflicted on this one. Flight Attendants aren’t Shirpa’s but it would have been nice if help was rendered directly or indirectly.
After reading the 4 page essay (complete with middle finger salute) it would not surprise me if this woman’s overhead luggage contained 5 lbs of unnecessary attitude.
If I were in charge at United, the cabin attendant and the supervisor to whom the passenger spoke would both be suspended and probably looking for another job.
It’s called Customer Service for a reason. Those people are the visible face of the company. They screwed up, period. The attendant should have helped the lady to her seat and stowed the bag. There’s no excuse for not going an extra inch or two to help someone who needs help.
And even if customer service is disregarded, there is still the basic human element of courtesy and respect to one another. The passenger who helped her showed it. Why would it be out of line for the attendant to show it?
As per usual, a lot of Dopers seem to believe that Customer Service = Slavery, and that if you can’t do everything asked (even when it is outside your job or your contract) with a smile, you should be fired, suspended, or be shamed into looking for another job. :rolleyes:
Although people like gate agents and flight attendants cannot and should not be expected to do everything, they are the face of the airline. If a passenger asks them for help, they should either help the passenger, get someone else to help the passenger, or explain why they can’t help.
I agree with those who have said that the passenger should have checked her bag, rather than brought it as carry-on, if she was unable to put it overhead by herself. However, faced with this situation, the FA should have dealt with the bag, perhaps by having it gate-checked, perhaps by finding somewhere else on the plane to stow it. Given a situation like this one (which can’t be all that rare), the airline should have a policy on how to deal with it, and the FA should be implementing that policy.
Or under the seat in front of hers, which used to be an acceptable option but now seems to be considered acceptable or not depending on the airline, the flight and the phase of the moon.
On most planes I fly on, the underseat space is much smaller than the overhead (and won’t fit most roller cases, even those of approved size). Also, if I completely fill the underseat, I then have an issue with where to put my legs. My laptop bag works underneath, as I can squeeze my feet around it so that I’m not eating a knee sandwich all flight.
Sorry, you couldn’t do that. The flight attendant’s union contract stipulates that they are not required to do that. That same union contract would prohibit you from firing her.
I would suspect that a high percentage of the same group of dopers would be totally in favor of unions like the one the flight attendant belongs to, that negotiated her contract that stipulated that she doesn’t have to lift bags into overhead compartments, even if her bosses want her to because she’s a frontline customer service employee.
No one asked the flight attendent to help ALL the passengers, just the ones that need it.
Now I believe that flight attendents are union employees, so there may some contract provision that prevents that, but short of that, if this actually happened this is rude and the flight attendent should be disciplined for it.
As I said, there is a HUGE difference between helping ALL passenger and helping one passengers. Even if there is a union contract prohibition at minimum the airline needs to provide some kind of employee to help people with special needs.
Again you don’t help EVERYONE, just those who need it. You have to have a sense of proportionality about things.
I assume you would also include this in the flight attendants written job descriptions & contracts, and assume full liability if the attendant injures themselve as a result of “going an extra inch or two” per your instructions. Not every employer will do that (just what is this particular airline’s exact policy ) and visible face of the company or not if your in the habit of screwing your employees over they’ll get in the habit of screwing your customers over. You get what you pay for.
It depresses me that seven people voted yes on the last option on the poll that says ‘passengers with disabilities should always fly with someone to help them’.
That’s essentially relegating us to second-class citizens in comparison to able-bodied passengers. Also, that’s a very slippery slope – how do you decide who needs a companion to keep them out of trouble and buffered from the able bodied?
Many people with disabilities fly without any problem and only need a little assistance – I agree that there’s question as to the level of ‘reasonable accommodation’ – but I strongly disagree that the solution is to require a caregiver/companion for everyone. Especially when, in this case, the airline itself said on their own website that they were prepared to provide accommodations that failed to materialize.
) and visible face of the company or not if your in the habit of screwing your employees over they’ll get in the habit of screwing your customers over. You get what you pay for.