I don’t see that quote in the piece. Are you trying to pass off an internet comment as a claim by an NBC reporter?
Why would I do that 
It’s in many places, for instance here:
Or put a phrase in Google for your own choice, something like “It was broad daylight. There was no warning"
Perhaps, given the context of this thread, I should have been more clear. I meant that, in general, they are behaving as selfish assholes. Treating all Palestinians like prisoners, restricting where they can fish, where they can go, building settlements, security cordons right through farmers’ lands, etc. As a matter of fact, in this particular case, I think Israel had no choice but to respond to the rocket attacks.
But tell me, given that the people there are largely at the mercy of the Israelis, what have the Israelis done to better the situation? Do they not have some responsibility to the innocent civilian (which, admittedly, may be somewhat rare)?
Again, and I want to be clear, Hamas and the Palestinians in general haven’t done much to deserve compassion. The populace apparently supports Hamas, which is probably not the way to peace. They just want revenge. Thus the reason for my earlier comments.
Outside the conflict, the total of the discussion seems to be who’s more right or less wrong.
Lots of tweets from people actually happy that children were killed.
Disgusting.
Israelis have done many shitty things. As, in fact, have most countries in the world. Most of whom do not get into constant debates as to whether or not they have any right to even exist. Or have large terrorist goups out there with the avowed intention of destroying them.
Are many Israeli actions selfish? You bet they are. They are (or at least, the right wing politicians are) perfectly willing to use Palestinian weakness as an excuse to snip off as much territory as they can get away with. Which is, I think, totally wrong and counter-productive to any peace.
However, in fairness, it should be pointed out that Israelis have, in the past, proved perfectly willing to hand back land they have seized, in order to secure peace - including dismantling settlements (and dragging out settlers, by force).
One example worked - namely, Israel handed the entire Sinai over to Egypt, in exchange for a peace treaty - dismantling settlements and divesting itself of the Sinai’s mineral resources.
One example did not work - namely, Israel handed over Gaza to the Palestinians, dismantling settlements there - and in return it got - Hamas.
In short, Israel is capable of great selfishness and injustice (what country is not?), but on the other hand - it is also capable of making concessions for peace.
Keeping in mind that the PA is supposed to be its own state, Israel collects the tax for the PA, and, in response to an earlier crisis, handed over about $100 million rather than use it to pay the PA’s bills. (Cite.)
The problem seems to be that PA politicians are often either corrupt thieves, or murderous terrorists.
Regards,
Shodan
I guess the boys deaths will be reported on the nightly news, right?
That response is… unsatisfying. Israel collects the tax for a political entity with some state functions, and I suppose that it was nice of them that they didn’t confiscate money that they arguably had rights to, but that doesn’t really count for much in my book.
Look, I don’t want to get in a detailed tit for tat over who does more for the other, or whose hands are covered in more blood.
My central point was (I’ll set aside the vulgarities; please accept that “asshole” was shorthand for what follows): Both sides seem to prefer the status quo to the specific actions that might provide for an improvement in the situation. Instead, they would rather act in their respective emotional self interests at the expense of long term betterment, despite the fact that they each KNOW that this is not going to resolve the conflict in any way, even by total defeat. During lulls in hostility, I don’t believe they act in good faith. During hostilities, each plays to his strengths, naturally. For Israel that’s a sophisticated military capable of bringing calibrated force on a specific spot. For Hamas that’s random terror.
As I keep saying, without less bad faith, there’s only two possibilities I see. Continued hostilities and genocide. And if neither is willing to break out of that, then I call that being an asshole. Perhaps you have a different word for it?
CNN is reporting a ground [del]war.[/del] “operation.”
ETA: it’s just an operation.
Huh? Have you not read my previous post? Israel has handed over large amounts of territory for peace - including, one may point out, the very Gaza that Hamas is now entrenched in.
Do you require cites for that?
Sinai:
Gaza:
Israel hands over a hundred million that they had rights to, but that doesn’t count. Israel hands over land that they had rights to, but that doesn’t count. Israel offers a deal that gives the Palestinians 95%+ of what they say they want, but that doesn’t count.
This is just not true. Neither side prefers the status quo - Israel wants peace and has made numerous concessions to try to get it. Hamas wants to destroy Israel and is not willing to make any concessions away from that position.
The status quo was where Israel makes concessions, and in return Hamas shoots rockets at Israel and tries to kill Israelis.
Why not?
In what ways do you think Israel acts in bad faith during lulls in the hostilities? If you mean building settlements, then why was the good-faith effort of the moratorium on settlements not met with any good-faith effort by the PA? Why was the good-faith effort to negotiate in the Camp David meeting rejected by the PA without any effort at a good-faith effort in return?
Do you think Hamas is entitled to get everything they want with nothing in return? If not, why should Israel be pressured to act as they were?
Regards,
Shodan
It happened right across from a hotel that a bunch of journalists are staying in, so yes I saw it on the 11:00 new last night. Does that mean something to you?
Me? What?
Thread gone quiet for 12 hours; why less collective SD approval for the collective Palestinian punishment? Are people busy watching and cheering the death of women and children from hilltops outside Gaza?
The saddest thing is having politicians, who are more interested in their own political survival at the top, taking decisions that cause death and suffering for the 99% ordinary folk. This is so sad… death and destruction… for what?
The 99% of ordinary folk voted for a political block that openly declared it’s intentions. If you vote Nazis you suffer the consequences.
You overrate elections. There is rarely a real choice. See U.S.A. elections
The reason I didn’t want to have the tit for tat is for exactly this reason: You know that Israel continues to expand some settlements even while dismantling some others. In your quote above you say Israel “had rights to [the land],” but I don’t know that’s true. My understanding is that these settlements are not generally considered legal by the rest of the world.
You also ignored my other points about the treatment of the population as a whole with severe restrictions on travel, dividing up farmer’s lands and preventing access, and a general collective punishment approach. We could spend three more pages on a parade of horribles on each side… Which interestingly would prove my original point.
And I find your last statement disingenuous. I think I have been clear that I don’t believe the Palestinians are any better than the Israelis. I have made that assertion (that they are both bad) in every single post on this topic.
You don’t see a false equivalence in your view of the moral actions of Hamas and Israel in this instance? You see an equality of … badness I guess … between Hamas (intentionally targeting civilians and intentional placing their population in the path of retaliation) and Israel (intentionally targeting rocket launch site and now military infrastructure in a densely populated region) and I have to admit I find that strange.
uh huh.
You must surely have grasped by now launch infrastructure is utterly minimal and the rockets are launced on timers. For very obvious reasons.
You really think those dumb Arabs are going to spend weeks building some fancy launch platform and then hang around smoking watching the launch?
So tired, so cliched.