Dear people who complain about Israel killing too many civilians:
Pray tell, what SHOULD Israel do when terrorists are firing rockets from hospitals and day schools?
This isn’t meant to be a thread debating who is right and who is wrong. I just want to see what brilliant solutions the complainers have.
I think it is more complicated than that. I think some people believe that there are steps Israel should be taking (like stopping the settlements) to give the Palestinians less reason to be hostile towards Israel.
I’m not saying I believe that would work, but it is an arguable position.
I agree that stopping the settlements would be a good idea, but almost all of the people who cite figures of high civilian kills (At least on the last few boards I was on) don’t mention anything about the settlements. I want to know what they want Israel to do on a day to day basis when rockets are landing like water from a shower.
EDIT: Not that stopping the settlements would solve the problem. It just might be a step in the right direction.
just stop killing innocent people!
Did you even read the thread?
Literally?
What do YOU think?
shut up you just want to make me look stupid.
I have no idea if you are being serious or not…
189 children dead doesn’t go down well with anyone, in any circumstance.
There is a widespread view (one that I hold) that large sections of the Israeli military have no real issue with Palistinian civilians being killed while taking out the militants and don’t do enough to minimise civilian casualties.
There is also the issue that they in many ways provoke the Palistinians.
You seem to be doing pretty well on your own.
Please note that the forum rules do not permit personal attacks.
Back off before you jeopardize your posting privileges.
[ /Moderating ]
So in your opinion, the Israelis should let the terrorists sit inside a school and keep shooting rockets? Oh, and thousands of citizens being killed shouldn’t go down too well, either.
EDIT: Thanks for keeping order, tom.
How many of those were due to Palestinian rocket attacks?
That was more of an example of terrorism in general. Most rockets don’t kill people since they are so inaccurate, with a total of 28 casualties since 2001. (This doesn’t include people who suffer permanent injuries such as loss of limbs, etc.) There is also property damage. Also, Sderot (the city most targeted) had to be evacuated in '07, and in '09 many people left Ashkelon.
Firstly, as a side note, thats not thousands, its 1188 in ten years - an average of 118-119 a year.
How many thousands of Palestinians have the Israeli’s killed in that period?
Over 4000 if memory serves.
An average of 400 a year.
Secondly, I never said they should just let them keep shooting, but they could at least try and snipe them, or give warning to the refugees seeking shelter there that they are about to bomb. The ‘terrorists’, if there were any, would know that Israel was going to bomb the school anyway, so its not like they would be getting extra warning.
If the UN was there, why didn’t they stop the terrorists from firing rockets?
As for sniping, it’s not like there’s a flat desert between Gaza and Sderot. The rockets go in an arc for long distances. Bullets go in a (mostly) straight line. And as for shooting from a helicopter?
Funnily enough, no-one but the Israeli army ever sees these terrorists that necessitate the bombing of schools and hospitals - the UN didn’t notice them lobbing rockets.
Yes, the Israeli army should risk its own soldiers to avoid casualties among innocent civilians whose country they invaded and land they stole - the least they can do is kill as few of the remainder as possible.
Not insane risk, but they shouldn’t just fuck rockets at the general area and then pretend nothing’s wrong when there are ten innocents dead for every terrorist.
What is THAT supposed to mean?
I’m not gonna derail this thread by getting into this debate with you. I’d offer you to post in Marmite’s thread, but that’s locked. So go ahead and start your own if ya want.
Do you have a better idea?
In occupied areas, actually, yes.
In an occupied territory the occupier is ipso facto responsible for the well-being of the occupied civilian. In this circumstance I have always argued that the life of any civilian, Palestinian or Israeli, is worth more than the life of a soldier. A soldier is at risk of violence by the nature of their job, the civilian shouldn’t be. While you want to maximize the number of bad guys you kill in relation to your own losses, you should also act to minimize civilian casualties ( even “enemy” civilians ), even at the cost of greater losses to your security forces.
Things are more complicated these days with the establishment of the PA and the question of just what is occupied to what extent. But as a general principal, yes, Israel should be willing to accept greater security casualties weeding out militants in exchange for reducing civilian losses of any kind. Sometimes targeted missile strikes might be the best way to accomplish this. Other times inserting teams and going house to house might be preferred and if that means five more dead Israeli soldiers than what would have occurred otherwise, oh well. It’s their job.
Please note I am not in anyway accusing Israel of being categorically unmindful of Palestinian civilians. I don’t believe that that is the case. Just pointing out my philosophy on the matter.
Blah, blah, blah. Poor Palestinians. Palestinians send their own children off to die as suicide bombers to kill other people’s children. Think about that, it’s chilling. They are willing to sacrifice their own children to go to a cafe or bus and kill civilians. They have long ago forfeited the moral high ground. If they could go a few months without blowing up anyone’s kids or lofting rockets into Israel then I’d have a little sympathy.