Oh, you wear a bra too, eh?
If Moore knew it was ever so a-okay to put up that affront to the Constitution, he would not have had it trucked in and installed under cover of night, without the knowledge or consent of the eight other justices with whom he shared the bench.
He is a nefarious vainglorious grandstander of whom the entire legal profession should be ashamed. And those so-called “protesters” have the gall and delusion to lock arms and sing “We Shall Overcome”? Have they no sense of irony at all? With his defiance of a valid court order set down by a federal judge, Moore evokes a lot more George Wallace than he does Martin Luther King. How is it possible they don’t see that?
I’m overjoyed he’s been removed from office pending investigation of ethics charges. He ought to be disbarred. And he ought to read a little more American history and legal history before he starts rationalizing his idiocy by attempting to point to the 10 Commandments as the basis of American jurisprudence. If honoring American legal history had been his goal, he’d have brought in a monument to Holmes or to Locke or to Jefferson. Which he didn’t. Pompous little wanker. Alabama should be ashamed. As a lawyer and a Christian, I’m ashamed.
Nope, they will simply follow the practice of their other false prophet, Ashcroft, and order your nude statue covered.
Well musicguy now that I have your attention.
Lets see who the bigots are:
Blalron: “Why don’t we give these fundies a fucking cross, so they can nail themselves to it?” and “The fact that these imbeciles”
gobear: “C’mon these are the same troglodytes” and “I find it hilarious that these hayseeds”
cole burner: “These inbred idiots are a waste of space and oxygen. If a bulldozer came in to move the monument and crushed them all, the average IQ in the country would go up.”
Revtim: "These people can’t think beyond the concept of “God good! Me like!” Notching up the brain to the next gear to understand far more complex concepts such us sep. of church and state is too much work, or simply beyond their capabilities. All they see is “God-thing being taken away! BAD! BAD!”
bagkitty: “I’M TIRED OF THESE WHINGEY XIANS” I have never heard of Christians being referred to as Xians.
I’m afraid you have failed to demonstrate what you claimed. You quoted a number of people expressing (none too politely) an emotional reaction to an attempt by Moore to use religious imagery to secure a run for the governorship, and the slogan waving expressed by his supporters. However, none of the quotes you cited actually express bigotry as the word is understood in English.
(You may need to get out more. Such usage is not at all rare on the internet.)
(I do admit that Xtian seems to be the more prevalent form, which seems odd to me, as no one uses Xtmas.)
musicguy
I specifically used that derogatory term to illustrate how inflamatory words can be. Oh its ok to call someone a bigot if he makes comments you don’t agree with. How do you think the people in Alabama would feel about your idea of bigotry by calling them “Hayseeds”, “troglodytes”, “inbred idiots”, “fundies a fucking cross”. You see I metted out that bigoted ephitat so that you can see how your comments would appear to another.
And as far as my true colors are you have no idea what they are. When I read all the hatred spouted towards these people by the OP and others it illustrated to me that there IS persecution of Christians wouldn’t you agree?
We are lucky to have people here who can speak their mind and worship how they please without fear of bodily injury or even death. It’s not that way in many other parts of the world. In Burma children who have been vaccinated by Christian missionaries have their arms lopped off by the government because Christianity is illegal. How messed up is that? In many parts of the middle east possession of a bible is a death sentence.
The continent of Africa is in a constant state of warfare where Muslims massacar christians by the thousands or starve them to death. So are Christians being persecuted? Just because the news of all these attrocities doesn’t permeate into your protected world does not make them so.
And to just set the record strait with Tuckerfan. Contrary to your view I’m not a Klansman. The thought of enslavement is most reprehensible and against Christianity. The Romans enslaved Christians (and whoever else they could conquer) and then fed them to the lions. Is that persecution? The cross was a Roman invention. Was this invention intended to persecute? It took almost 400 years for the Romans to accept Christianity and then it was only instituted as a device to maintain the empire control over its populace.
The Civil war was fought over the right of a state to secede from the federal nation not over slavery. Slavery might have been an issue that the north could use to galvanise support but it was not THE reason for the war.
I am a student of history Tuckerfan and I know well the history of the crusades. Do you know about the muslim invasion of Spain, the Byzantine empire and most of Europe? It happened about 300 years BEFORE the crusades so I guess the “Christians” were just getting even. As a Christian, it is against the law to take someone’s life regardless of their beliefs. Too bad others do not live by this.
I get out quite often since my work has me traveling accross the nation but I guess I need to get into the internet more so I can find more instances of Xian? Xian to me was an ancient Chinese emperor in the 1st century BC so when I saw it used here I had a hard time understanding the author’s message.
Let’s see bigot english?
As cited in Merriam-Webster
Main Entry: big·ot
Pronunciation: 'bi-g&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, hypocrite, bigot
Date: 1661
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
Sorry bigot comes from france not england
I don’t know, SunTzu2U, you claim to be a student of history, yet you make this one-sided claim:
Why do you point out the Muslim-on-Christian violence while ignoring the Christian-on-Muslim violence that also is occurring in the same region?
This hardly has a bearing on the situation as it applies in Alabama, however. The name-calling that is expressed on this message board by people opposing the mingling of Church and State in the halls of justice are hardly on the same order of persecution as the supporters of the mingling of Fundamentalist Christianity and State have engaged in recent years, including slander, vandalism, beatings, and death threats directed against people who have called for the separation of Church and State.
A particularly silly response, given that I noted its understanding, not its origin. If you are simply going to play word games, at least understand that to which you respond.
Ok I’ll repeat:
bi-got: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
So generalizing people in Alabama as “Hayseeds” “troglodytes” “inbred idoits” is not bigotry?
Please explain…
We aren’t making generic statements about everyone in Alabama. We are making specific statements about the specific individuals that are so fanatically devoted to this monument that they will physical obstruct its removal.
Persecution? Do you know what that word means? Christians are not being fed to the lions, they are not being rounded up and interned, their property has not been confiscated, they are not beaten for their beliefs…and if they would stop trying to get the government into the religion business, the OP and the others would shut up.
Because the government doesn’t need to be in the religion business. The religion business is doing just fine on it’s own. They got outlets on put-near every corner of every town. And they’re making good revenue. More power to them, I say.
But some Christians don’t like compitition. They want to stack the deck and have the State define the true God for everybody. They want the State to put the Jews and Muslims at disadvantage by certifying the Christian God (at least, their version of the Christian God). And the atheists, well we could just crawl off and die for all they care. The framers didn’t want that sort of thing to happen and thought …well, that government should stay out of the religion business. So that we could all decide for ourselves who the true God is, and shop accordingly.
But if you think Christians are being persecuted, you’re just plain wrong.
But you still hold an intolerably devoted opinion and prejudice of these people. What if they were protesting the building of a Nuclear power plant? Would you still hold the same opinion? How about blocking the UN building? Your opinion still holds?
Another point which has not made much news is that there is no company which has stepped forward to do the removal work. Is it fear? Could be… or is it a silent confirmation of the views held by these people?
I hope that musicguy, tuckerfan and the others here realize that I am trying to force them to come up with valid reasons as to why the monument should be moved and not resort to low brow insults pitched anonymously about to support their beliefs.
Generalizing that a specific group of people who are championing the mixing of Church and State are “bad” or calling them names does not, in and of itself, indicate that the name-callers are “obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices.” It simply indicates that they are angered and (perhaps) are not very polite. Do you have evidence that any of the name-callers, here, are “obstinately devoted to their opinions”? You have provided little more than pliatitudes and red-herrings to support the views of those who wish to defy the Constitution. Until I have seen a demonstration that the name-callers will not consider any other opinion in light of genuine arguments, the most I can conclude is that they are angry.
(Bigoted seems to describe Roy Moore more closely–a man who has had forty years to consider the value of the separation of Church and State, has sworn oaths to uphold the Constitution, and yet chooses to violate those oaths for no better purpose than to drum up support to run for office.)
I don’t care about the protests. I care about the monument to ONE God in a government building (because that building also belongs to people of other faiths, and those who have not chosen a faith) and the shallow publicity hound who put it there.
Folks can protest to their heart’s content.
By the way, I support the right to protest, not to block anybody from buildings or what not.
Based on the treatment of people who have dared to defy the religious mentality of the region in the past, I think fear would be a good working hypothesis.
As a Christian in the United States of America, I don’t have to worry about people looking askance at me when I say I have to be at church on Sunday. I don’t have to worry about people telling me I’m going to hell because of my religion. I don’t have to worry about losing custody of my children (if I had any) because of my religion. I don’t have to worry about people thinking I’m immoral or unethical, at least, not as a rule. I can even serve alcohol to children in front of the mayor and a policeman without persecution (I’m a chalicist, the person who gives wine to people during Communion, at my church). Indeed, the only people who’ve told me I’m at risk of going to hell are fellow Christians who aren’t sure I’m Christian enough for them. Since I whole-heartedly support the Supreme Court’s decision in this case, I suspect that, to them, that’s more evidence that I’m not a “real Christian”.
Two good friends of mine are Wiccans, and I have some connections to the local Pagan community. They don’t take the privileges I have for granted. I’ll also point out that it’s only the Christians in this country trying to get their religious tenets posted in courthouses. Not Muslims, not Jews, not Atheists, Wiccans, or anyone else. I can drive around the suburbs of my city and see any number of references to Jesus on signs outside businesses, but not Mohammed, Elijah, or the Goddess. A pagan get-together in a local park last year was picketed by Christians. When was the last time the reverse happened?
England is and was a specifically Christian nation. The reigning monarch is also titular head of the Church of England. Part of America’s rebellion against England was rebellion against the notion of a state church. Jefferson and company were brilliant men. If they had wanted to invoke an explicitly Christian God, be it Jehovah (who, as far as I know, is named in the Torah, Old Testament, and Koran and not in the core texts of other religions) or anyone else, they would have done so.
I am a hardcore, devout, active Christian, and I would not feel comfortable in Moore’s courtroom or in his church. My applause to the Supreme Court!
CJ
There was an AP news story in my local paper this morning about how many of the Christians opposed to the removal of the monument are calling for Alabama Attorney General Bill Pryor to resign, apparently for doing his job and seeing that the federal court order that Justice Moore is defying is carried out. These are the same people who have been hailing Moore in statements as one of “America’s finest”.
So by their reasoning violating your oath of office by ignoring a federal court order you don’t agree with while the appeals process still goes on makes you one of America’s finest, but trying to carry out that court order (since your oath of office requires it) makes you unworthy of office? Pryor wouldn’t have to carry out this responsibility of his office if Moore had carried out his in the first place.
This is why the persecution talk from people like Moore, his supporters, Pat Robertson, and his organization the American Center For Law and Justice pisses me off so damn much. They always regard any policy or law that doesn’t give them “first among equals” status as oppressive examples of the religious persecution they must deal with.