http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/democrat/news/opinion/6587024.htm
Alabama has a republican governor who is trying to make the tax code in Alabama much more fair. Why on earth should a family of 3 have to pay taxes on $4,600?? You cannot support one person let alone a family on that.
What’s even more amazing is that the Republican Party in Alabama is against the tax code change. But not so surprisingly the Democratic party is all for it. Many right wing anti tax groups also are fighting it.
Should Gov. Riley buck his own party and his political brethren? Will this bring more black voters into the Republican party? Or has Riley opened a can of worms?
Any dopers from alabama please give us your two cents.
I’ve lived in Alabama. Nothing will change, because an anti-change faction will call it “communist” and “atheist”, and the poor dumb slobs that populate the rural districts, not knowing any better, will believe them.
It’s a shame, too. Their lives could be so much better.
IIRC from the thread on the Ten Commandments, Alabama is on the brink of bankruptcy. They alsy have some of the lowest real estate taxes in the country. I’d reckon something needs to be done.
Thanks for the article link, Reeder. I just read an editorial in the Wall Street Journal yesterday that said…I kid you not…that Alabama’s tax code is already too progressive as it. As usual, the WSJ editorial page was clearly up to its usual distortions and lies to make its case. In this case, I didn’t have the facts available to know what the lies were, as I do when they talk about the federal tax code; now I do.
While I agree that Alabama’s income tax system is unfair, I cannot support the governor. I am a state employee of Alabama. I realize that I might lose my job because of a lack of funds if the plan does not pass.
The vote on September 9th will be an up or down vote on, get this, 22 bills. The bills include everything from the mentioned income tax change (which I support) to reducing healthcare for state employees (which I do not support). I won’t go into all 22 bills, but suffice to say it’s not as straightforward as the original post implies.
For the record, I do support the property tax increase proposal and the reworking of the income tax structure. The property and income tax changes are the bulk of the plan. It’s a pity that because of the rest of the package I can’t vote “yes”.
The proposal does not actually reduce healthcare benefits. It reduces state employee benefits. Currently Healthcare is provided at no additional charge to state employees. Under the proposal state employees would start paying a percentage of healthcare costs. (This is not a show stopper for me, but is just one of the negative aspects of the proposal). In fact none of the individual things that I oppose alone would make me vote “no”.
I would like to compliment Reeder on presenting a discernable thesis, a proposition for debate, and supporting documentation. This is an excellent topic for debate.
From what I’ve read, the tax plan has valuable changes to offer Alabama; I’m mystified by reports that low-income voters seem to be against the measure, if polls are to be believed. Although it’s not for me to tell the people of Alabama how to run their state, I think it’s safe to say that, were I an Alabama resident, I’d favor this move, despite the less-than-salutory effects it would have on my personal financial situation.
It’s interesting that at least part of the motivation for this cut seems to be the governor’s Christian beliefs. So not to hijack the debate, but to toss another question into the mix: should this plan be opposed because it stems from a religious source? Or is that irrelevant?
I live right here in Montgomery, AL. (Moved here from the DC area a few years ago)…
The tax situation, and the Justice Moore situation is quite appalling. I love it down here, but there needs to be a massive overhaul. The school system down here is an atrocious mess.
What I love about Alabama:
People here are courteous, warm and have good manners; even the children. The kids are taught to say Yes Ma’am/No Ma’am, etc. LOVE IT! The weather is pretty decent. My hubby was making a Washington DC paycheck while we lived down here. (nice!). Hopefully he can do it again. It’s not crowded, and the pace is a lot slower than the DC area. There is a family of armadillos in my back yard, gekkos around my house… and deer come into my woods sometimes. I feel like I’m living in the wilderness comparatively!
I’ll never move to the DC area again – not if I can help it. I went up there last weekend to visit family – the first time since we moved here and got a huge headache from the traffic/pace.
This is the best kept secret - Alabama. Now if they can only FIX the troubled spots.
Bosda - How do you know that I have it better than you? Merely because you have to pay a percentage of your healthcare insurance? It is quite possible that I have it better than you, but there hasn’t been any data provided to prove either way. The OP asked for dopers from Alabama to respond. Maybe my response was incomplete. Here’s my list of reasons against (in no particular order)
up or down vote on 22 bills on a hastily drafted proposal.
distrust in this governor. I don’t feel the election was decided fairly with ,if I recall correctly, less that a percentage point margin of victory with the deciding county having a mechanical reporting problem, err no, a human reporting problem, err no, we don’t know because our papers never decided to explain what the problem was. No, I don’t have a cite. These are my personal reasons.
In state memo’s the governor has listed frozen merit raises as a cost-cutting measure of “wasteful” spending. I can accept a “we don’t have the money” as a reason to freeze merit raises, but “wasteful” spending?
Why as a state employee should I have to have my benefits reduced and my taxes raised? Treat me like you do the rest of the citizens of the state.
I don’t support the tax on labor. Currently if you get your car repaired you do not pay a tax on the labor portion, only on parts. (Honestly, I might could support this proposal if I had more time to study all the ramifications of it. But who knows what you are voting on when so much i crammed into a single vote?)
The proposed changes are to raise an additional $1.2 billion to plug a deficit of $675 million —errr no, not exactly, the Feds are providing a one time $265 million to help states through the budget crisis. Governor Riley says we should not consider the $265 million because it is “one time”. Is he saying the economy is going to be performing poorly forever? Maybe that’s what he is saying. Maybe we do need the tax. Just say it! OK? Or is it rather when the economy turns around this tax ends up being much greater than $1.2 billion? (yes I realize that the plan will only raise 750 odd million the first year and will reach $1.2 billion when fully implemented)
Riley says that much of the budget crisis is due to the fact that Alabama earmarks 92% of its revenue. If he believes this, why wasn’t he more aggressive with the removal of earmarking combined with a more modest tax increase. By the way, a more modest tax increase does not preclude the possibility of making a more equitable income tax structure.
The grossly immoral income tax upon the poor is used as a smoke screen in much the same way that starving children in Africa are used in pre-paid TV programs begging for money. Of course, I would give 87 cents per day to keep a child from starving in Africa, but I don’t trust most of those agencies, nor do I trust that the governor intends to spend the money on the programs he is tauting.
I do not think that it is an accident that the Republican legislaturors of Alabama refused to do ANYTHING during the regular session this year. The claim was they weren’t getting fair representation on committees. Alabama’s Legislature did not even consider an operating budget during the regular session. The senate couldn’t get a quorum. But during the special session, the governor proposed his plan. The special session requires a simple majority to pass bills. By law, the earliest an amendment can be voted on by the people is 90 days after passing the legislature —which puts the vote in September right before end of fiscal year. Coincidence?
OHHHH! I get it! As a state employee of Alabama I should vote yes because state employees in Tennessee have it worse. Sorry it took me so long to understand. I should’ve absolutely got it from the first post.
I am amused. Such class rabble rousing and tax-engineering bullshit.
I can’t believe that anyone who is able to tie his own shoes would believe that in Alabama a family of three earning $4,600 per year pays 10% in state income taxes. Go find me that family and I’ll pay their taxes myself.
The Riley Tax scheme is a scam. Riley has been scaring some folks by threatning to open the prisons and releasing the prisoners to wander the streets, and closing some nursing homes and throwing the old folks out onto the streets if his one billion and three hundred million dollar tax increase is not voted in by the people.
You see Brother Bob is a con man whose vision is a Alabama that is like all other states; overtaxed and over regulated. Brother Bob also has a personal vision, a dream really, he sees himself as president of the United States.
Dream on Riley. True Alabamians dream of an old fashioned California Recall.
Meanwhile Reeder’s cite in the Tallahassee Democrat plays the religious card and sez…
If Riley loses, on the other hand, we’ll have pretty convincing proof that for all the moral high ground Christians claim, in a showdown they open themselves to criticism that they hate taxes more than they love Jesus.
I tell you folks these yellow dog democrats are totally without shame.
My apologies for dodging the debate. One point in the OP was will this bring more blacks into the fold. My guess is no since Riley vetoed a bill that would allow offenders who had completed their sentence to get the right to vote back automatically.
Locally Montgomery African-American politicians were saying to support the tax anyway. But others were dissenting.
If you read the quote carefully, you’ll note that it doesn’t say income taxes. I’m sure they are counting sales tax and other local taxes (maybe car tax and tax on utilities) as well. The numbers for the high income people also subrtact the amount these people can deduct on their Fed taxes for state taxes.
I’m not saying I agree with that type of analysis, but that’s what they’re doing.
Reeder: Nice to see an OP from you that isn’t a rant against Bush. Hope to see more!
I meant to add: I went to the link and read the whole article, but it doesn’t do a good enough job describing the actual tax code the way it is now and what the changes would do. Given that, it’s hard to comment on whether this is a good or bad idea.
Blalron: “You can just keep your “maams” and your “sirs”, they don’t amount to a hill of beans. I’d trade courtesy for common sense any day of the week.”
Uh, **Blalron**. I don't know about the laws of Oregon but in Alabama we are still allowed to have both.
