Alcoholic bevs: the ups and downs of experience

[Aeschines]

First, let me state that any negatives I’m about to talk about are only possible in the embarrassment of riches we enjoy today. Whether it’s craft beer, bourbon, Scotch, Cognac–you name it–we are in a kind of golden age. The only downside of a golden age with plenty available at reasonable prices is that your palate can get tired.

Anyone have an experience like this? I first got into craft beer in 1998. “Into” might be too strong a word. Dipping my toe in the as yet limited lake of beer available (shitty metaphor, sorry). My first trip to a craft brewery was Goose Island in Chicago that year. The first craft beers I tried were the flight I had there, Goose IPA in bottles, Anchor Steam, Anchor Porter, and Pete’s Wicked Ale (RIP).

So the experience: Goose IPA blew my mind! Insane hoppiness. I felt I was sucking on a pine cone with that bad boy. Anchor porter, wow. So dark, so rich! Anchor Steam, too, such powerful flavors!

Now I still have respect for those beers (well, not Pete’s which did suck by today’s standards, and Goose IPA is “good”), but of course, since those days, we’ve all had our palates dive-bombed by a variety of hop-monsters. (Or if you got into craft beers after the current abundance was in place, you got your palate bombed pretty quickly.)

Here are a couple observations I make in the Abundant Era after palate-bombing:

1. A good porter is pretty much… a good porter. Since porters aren’t really defined by the hops (though they can be–nuance!), the game is to add flavors. Chocolate-bhut jolokia-cranapple porter, etc. Some of these are great, but the palate can tire of these too.

2. Witness the rise of the “good enough IPA.” You know what I mean. Any craft brewery’s gotta have an IPA, right, and some really try to make something different and distinctive, and some just do a, well, “good enough IPA.” And I don’t hate them. But still, I recall those days when Goose IPA was a mind-blowing hop-monster. “I’ve looked at hops from both sides now…” /Judy Collins.

3. Lagers are cool! Breweries have done every damn kind of ale, so lagers are left. And lagers are good. They are tough to do and have a distinctive flavor and finish when done well. Lagers are also good because:

4. Nuance is everything. One reason I adore Three Floyds’ Alpha King is that it has hops but it’s subtle and complex and always gives me something to think about. The same is true of a lot of their beers, which is why I’m a big fan. A couple local breweries that do the same for me here in Indy are Black Acre in Irvington and Union in Carmel.

I could tell a similar tale about Scotch. Peated Islays blew my mind, and that was that. You can really only go there once; further explorations can be good but not mind-blowing. A lot of bourbon tastes the same. A lot of Cognac is mediocre. I tend to find favorites and keep drinking them, saving most of my exploration for beer.

That’s what I got on that. Please share your stories and thoughts, thanks!

[snfaulkner]

When I first started bartending at 22, I would regularly spend all my tips back at the bar trying anything and everything. In the name of science! After a few yrs of all that, I know what beers liquors cocktails are good and crap. So what do I mostly drink these days, some 20 yrs later?

Budweiser.

Yup. It’s commonly available everywhere. It’s not bad for its price range (which is cheap, but not garbage rate), and with am out I drink, I can afford to buy a 30 pack every other day or two.

This does NOT mean it is in any way my favorite beer (which right now might be smithwicks or fuller’s London oride), and it certainly does NOT mean will drink bud light.

All it means is that I’m sick having to try and decide upon which Next Thing every day I get off work.

[Aeschines]

@snfaulkner

When I first started bartending at 22, I would regularly spend all my tips back at the bar trying anything and everything. In the name of science! After a few yrs of all that, I know what beers liquors cocktails are good and crap. So what do I mostly drink these days, some 20 yrs later?

Budweiser.

Haha, I can’t embrace the beer, but I can embrace your logic. In gin I have a similar opinion: Beefeater is the best gin. It’s high-quality and smooth, but it has a limited number of botanicals, so you can actually pick them out and see how they interact. It even tastes like juniper! Yet for some reason, it’s treated like bottom-shelf trash these days. I think the “cram as many botanicals into the gin as possible” program is basically a failure; they flavors simply wash out. Though, among such gins, I do enjoy Citadelle, which has the added benefit of being cheap (under $20 for fifth the other day at Jungle Jim’s in Cincinnati–not readily available in Indiana).

[solost]

I went through a period where I was drinking nothing but IPAs, the hoppier the better. But, yeah, I do get a bit of palate fatigue with all the hops after awhile.

Part of it is the time of year-- I like a lighter, more refreshing drink when the thermometer is passing 90. As mentioned, even a Budweiser if it’s ice cold enough can hit the spot on a hot day. Though I’d prefer a German lager or a Grolsch.

My wife and I’ve been on a margarita kick lately. Making them very icy with pretty top-shelf tequila and Cointreau, they’ve been going down real nice. As I mentioned in another post, I’m going to try some rum cocktails next.

But I always go back to beer, and there will be more IPAs in my future. I just had a Bell’s Two-Hearted Ale last night in fact-- but only because it’s all there was in the fridge.

[kferr]

@snfaulkner

This does NOT mean it is in any way my favorite beer (which right now might be smithwicks or fuller’s London oride), and it certainly does NOT mean will drink bud light.

This made me smile. In the UK London Pride is sort of seen as the Budweiser of real ales. It’s usually consistent, available nationwide, and a perfectly decent pint. My local has 10 real ales on but Pride is the go-to for many of the regulars.

To the OP, a term I’ve seen used recently is “session IPA” for beer that is still hop forward but not over the top with either hops or alcohol. If you get a chance try a proper ‘old school’ IPA, Marston’s Old Empire. It does use some American hops but doesn’t have the citrus kick American hops are know for.

[kayaker]

I love sours. Lambics, gueuzes, Flanders reds, goses, farmhouse ales, etc.

Lately I alternate IPA-Sour-water, repeat.

[bump]

I’m definitely a nuance in beer kind of guy myself. At risk of sounding like a pretentious twat, I’ve been on something of a lager (spec. pilsner) odyssey for about a decade now, because in my mind, the ability to produce an excellent German or Bohemian pilsner seems to be the pinnacle of the brewing art. It’s a style that requires nuance and extreme skill- the hop and grain flavors are front and center, and the yeast flavors shouldn’t be very noticeable at all- they’re certainly not a major component like they are in ales. And there’s nowhere to hide, so to speak. Flaws in technique or recipe will stand out like a fart in a car, unlike in “bigger” styles with more of some combination of hops, roasted malts and yeast funk. Something like an imperial stout has a whole lot of room for error, while a German Pilsner has nearly none.

In that vein, the big boys like Anheuser-Busch are *extremely *skilled brewers. It’s just unfortunate that their primary product is so lackluster in terms of flavor.

As far as spirits go, I’ve learned that the best bang for your buck is usually in the second or third tier (sort of like the 80/20 rule). Using the example of gin, the small-batch distilleries and high-end ones are definitely good, but you pay for it. Bluecoat, Citadelle, Junipero, Leopold Bros, The Botanist, Cadenhead Old Raj are all excellent, but expensive. You get a product that’s 80% of the way there, for a lot less money. Gins like Beefeater, Boodles, Brokers, Seagram’s Distillers Reserve, etc… are all good gins for a fraction of the cost of say… Old Raj or Leopold Bros, or Junipero.

And really, with the exception of whiskey, which is sometimes drunk neat or with water/ice, who drinks spirits straight anyway? Most everyone either goes with highballs/mixed drinks or shots, both of which aren’t nearly so sensitive to quality. So why spend more? You can’t tell the difference between say… Cruzan and 10 Cane in a well-made drink, so save the cash.

[tenacious_j]

@bump

I’m definitely a nuance in beer kind of guy myself. At risk of sounding like a pretentious twat, I’ve been on something of a lager (spec. pilsner) odyssey for about a decade now, because in my mind, the ability to produce an excellent German or Bohemian pilsner seems to be the pinnacle of the brewing art. It’s a style that requires nuance and extreme skill- the hop and grain flavors are front and center, and the yeast flavors shouldn’t be very noticeable at all- they’re certainly not a major component like they are in ales. And there’s nowhere to hide, so to speak. Flaws in technique or recipe will stand out like a fart in a car, unlike in “bigger” styles with more of some combination of hops, roasted malts and yeast funk. Something like an imperial stout has a whole lot of room for error, while a German Pilsner has nearly none.

So what do you recommend, with so much good stuff hiding among the crap? I am always looking for something light and crisp in the summer, instead of always grabbing the Urquell. If what you suggest is available here, I’ll give it a try.

[kayaker]

For something light you can drink all day, the Summer Shandy Sampler from Leinenkugels (Summer Shandy®, Watermelon Shandy®, Grapefruit Shandy®, Ginger Shandy®) is worth a try. I’ve gone through a few cases this summer.

[delphica]

Well, one thing that I like about beer is that I can rotate my own seasons. Not so much how they market them (I, for one, do not care for all the fall pumpkin/spice offerings), but I like going on a porter jag in the winter and then then being excited for more pilseners and kolsch(es?) (is that plural? I don’t know) when the weather gets warmer. But I do get your point that as I have gotten more knowledgeable about beer, there are fewer times when I drink something that is completely new to me. I guess I try to focus on the times when something has just enough of a nuance that it makes the “typical” seem even better, without being all crazy.

For spirits, I tend to stick more to my old favorites. Sure, if someone has a new bottle of something different or interesting, I am super psyched if I am invited to sample it! But in terms of stocking my own bar, it’s my personal standards I go for.

[tenacious_j]

@kayaker

For something light you can drink all day, the Summer Shandy Sampler from Leinenkugels (Summer Shandy®, Watermelon Shandy®, Grapefruit Shandy®, Ginger Shandy®) is worth a try. I’ve gone through a few cases this summer.

I need to try the grapefruit as it sounds yummy, but I can’t stand the lemon shandy. I was really excited when it came out, but hated it. I am really disappointed that it’s on tap everywhere, meaning their delicious berry weiss is not anymore.
I hope the grapefruit is better.

[Aeschines]

@solost

Part of it is the time of year-- I like a lighter, more refreshing drink when the thermometer is passing 90. As mentioned, even a Budweiser if it’s ice cold enough can hit the spot on a hot day. Though I’d prefer a German lager or a Grolsch.

Right, I am finally beginning to appreciate lighter styles during summer.

My wife and I’ve been on a margarita kick lately. Making them very icy with pretty top-shelf tequila and Cointreau, they’ve been going down real nice. As I mentioned in another post, I’m going to try some rum cocktails next.

Ha, margaritas and daiquiris are dangerous! In my boozier early 30s, I used to make daiquiris with a variety of fresh Japanese citrus: sudachi, yuzu, etc. Good times.

But I always go back to beer, and there will be more IPAs in my future. I just had a Bell’s Two-Hearted Ale last night in fact-- but only because it’s all there was in the fridge.

Yeah, I had that on tap recently, and it didn’t do much for me. But it’s not a bad beer at all. Though I think I’ve grown to appreciate sweeter, more malty beers less over time.

[Aeschines]

@tenacious_j

I need to try the grapefruit as it sounds yummy, but I can’t stand the lemon shandy. I was really excited when it came out, but hated it. I am really disappointed that it’s on tap everywhere, meaning their delicious berry weiss is not anymore.
I hope the grapefruit is better.

Sculpin with grapefruit from Ballast Point has been going out to Trader Joes at a very good price. Very nice summer beer.

[Aeschines]

@kferr

This made me smile. In the UK London Pride is sort of seen as the Budweiser of real ales. It’s usually consistent, available nationwide, and a perfectly decent pint. My local has 10 real ales on but Pride is the go-to for many of the regulars.

I wonder if that’s available here in bottles or cans?

To the OP, a term I’ve seen used recently is “session IPA” for beer that is still hop forward but not over the top with either hops or alcohol.

Yes, I’ve seen those rise up in the past few years. It’s funny, I’ve experienced them as everything from thin and watery to as robust and flavorful as a higher-alcohol beer. In general, they seem to taste much better on tap (as compared to regular IPAs, which are better on tap usually thought not with so big a difference).

If you get a chance try a proper ‘old school’ IPA, Marston’s Old Empire. It does use some American hops but doesn’t have the citrus kick American hops are know for.

I’ll look for that too!

[Aeschines]

@kayaker

I love sours. Lambics, gueuzes, Flanders reds, goses, farmhouse ales, etc.

Lately I alternate IPA-Sour-water, repeat.

Right, here in the US, breweries are really trying every style with vigor, now that they have conquered IPAs in every which way.

[Aeschines]

@bump

I’m definitely a nuance in beer kind of guy myself. At risk of sounding like a pretentious twat, I’ve been on something of a lager (spec. pilsner) odyssey for about a decade now, because in my mind, the ability to produce an excellent German or Bohemian pilsner seems to be the pinnacle of the brewing art.

Yes, I’ve made the same discovery myself, albeit recently. I have really appreciated the lagers that Three Floyds has put out, as well as those by Union in Carmel.

It’s a style that requires nuance and extreme skill- the hop and grain flavors are front and center, and the yeast flavors shouldn’t be very noticeable at all- they’re certainly not a major component like they are in ales. And there’s nowhere to hide, so to speak.

Good point about the yeast, I hadn’t thought of that! Yeah, lagers are typically (supposed to be?) very clean, which is no doubt why they have been so popular, even when beer culture hadn’t yet branched out into a lot of styles, as in the US and Japan.

Flaws in technique or recipe will stand out like a fart in a car, unlike in “bigger” styles with more of some combination of hops, roasted malts and yeast funk. Something like an imperial stout has a whole lot of room for error, while a German Pilsner has nearly none.

Right, you can get a very nice focus on the hops. I would call out the National Liberty lager by Black Acre as a really good example of a hoppy lager than does something significantly different than a hoppy ale.

In that vein, the big boys like Anheuser-Busch are *extremely *skilled brewers. It’s just unfortunate that their primary product is so lackluster in terms of flavor.

True! I would say the same thing about the big brewers of Japan, where I had my first taste of beer in the early 90s. It’s not easy to make a consistent product in such volume. I lived in Soka, Saitama, where Asahi has a big operation, and you would not believe the block after block of massive tanks they have. Mind-blowing volume.

As far as spirits go, I’ve learned that the best bang for your buck is usually in the second or third tier (sort of like the 80/20 rule). Using the example of gin, the small-batch distilleries and high-end ones are definitely good, but you pay for it. Bluecoat, Citadelle, Junipero, Leopold Bros, The Botanist, Cadenhead Old Raj are all excellent, but expensive. You get a product that’s 80% of the way there, for a lot less money. Gins like Beefeater, Boodles, Brokers, Seagram’s Distillers Reserve, etc… are all good gins for a fraction of the cost of say… Old Raj or Leopold Bros, or Junipero.

Frankly, I think when it comes to gin, cheaper is often just plain better. Or let me put it another way: the very expensive gins are often misbegotten, don’t do what a gin really needs to do. I think Beefeater is different because the flavor is very clean but the botanicals pop.

And really, with the exception of whiskey, which is sometimes drunk neat or with water/ice, who drinks spirits straight anyway? Most everyone either goes with highballs/mixed drinks or shots, both of which aren’t nearly so sensitive to quality. So why spend more? You can’t tell the difference between say… Cruzan and 10 Cane in a well-made drink, so save the cash.

Indeed. Don’t get me started on premium vodkas!

[Aeschines]

@delphica

Well, one thing that I like about beer is that I can rotate my own seasons. Not so much how they market them (I, for one, do not care for all the fall pumpkin/spice offerings), but I like going on a porter jag in the winter and then then being excited for more pilseners and kolsch(es?) (is that plural? I don’t know) when the weather gets warmer.

Good point. Creating one’s own variety is important.

[delphica]

@tenacious_j

So what do you recommend, with so much good stuff hiding among the crap? I am always looking for something light and crisp in the summer, instead of always grabbing the Urquell. If what you suggest is available here, I’ll give it a try.

On the “light for summer,” if it is available near you, I absolutely love the Six Point (Brooklyn-based) pilsener, which is called, appropriately enough, The Crisp. It is, as implied, very light and crisp, and it has a very, very slight sweetness to it.

[RealityChuck]

Maltcon taught m3 to appreciate scotch and especially single malts. I’m partial to Speysides like Speyburn. Don’t care for the smoky stuff, tough.

For everyday, I like Woodchuck cider and Smirnoff Ice or a nice Merlot.

Never met a beer I could stand.

[Aeschines]

@delphica

On the “light for summer,” if it is available near you, I absolutely love the Six Point (Brooklyn-based) pilsener, which is called, appropriately enough, The Crisp. It is, as implied, very light and crisp, and it has a very, very slight sweetness to it.

I had that. I was really impressed! The name fits it perfectly. Lots of flavor too.