Alcoholism/Depression connection?

Great Debates
1

Is there any link between the two?

I have known only a few “alcoholics” (as I would define them), and the ones that I knew seemed to also suffer from depression (an opinion, as I’m not a medical expert).

It seems to be a vicious cycle with one fueling the other, but is there any info indicating that one causes the other, or that they are both caused by some other (possibly unknown) factor?

BTW, my definition of “alcoholic” (as opposed to “habitual drunk” is the type person to whom the substance and the desire to acquire the substance becomes a stronger driving force than the sense to hold down a job or keep a family together.

2

Well, alcohol is a CNS depressant. The short-term effect of alcohol intoxication, once you get past the lower-inhibitions-and-euphoria phase, include the emotional and cognitive states we call depression when they persist.

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3

What he said.

Also, there is a recognized pattern of drug and alcohol usage called ‘self-medicating’ - where people with mental illness inebriate themselves to find relief. This is common with depression, bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. Also, the symptoms of withdrawl from many drugs including alcohol mimic those of depression, as well as other mental illnesses.

To get at the heart of your question though -I can’t tell you specific numbers, but I do remember reading that the percentage of people with mental illness is higher in alcoholics than with the general population, but I don’t remember by how much. This sort of research is difficult to do - basically its not appropriate to make a diagnosis for an addict who has not been clean for at least six months (in my opinion) because patterns of usuage and withdrawal are too confusing to yield a good result.

The exception to the above would be if the person had a clear history before they turned to drugs/alcohol.

4

So wait, the effects of alcohol intoxication include depression, and the effects of alcohol withdrawal include depression? Sheesh!

5

Remember that C(entral) N(ervous) S(ystem) depression is a purely physical symptom. It basically means that heart and lungs slow down. This is something alcohol and many other drugs do to ALL USERS. It’s basically a physical symptom of ‘being high’; the emotional side effects are different in every user.

For instance, barbiturates are also responsible for CNS depression in users. However, this physical symptom may be accompanied by side effects such as manic episodes or excessive talkativeness, which certainly counterindicate the dominance of ‘depression’ (emotional) as the mental side effect.

‘Emotional’ depression, i.e. sadness, hopelessness, feeling of unreasonable excessive guilt and what have you, is a completely different beast.

I don’t think this is the question the OP poses, but since this distinction has been blurred in two posts, I felt the need to add my 2 cents.

6

Its a point well made, but there are a couple caveats.

‘‘Emotional’ depression, i.e. sadness, hopelessness, feeling of unreasonable excessive guilt and what have you, is a completely different beast’

None of this is required for a DSM-IV diagnosis of depression. Basically, as little as low-stimuli responsiveness and a flat affect are sufficient. There is more to it than this (this could be a host of mental illnesses) but the point is you don’t have to feel sad, hopeless or guilty to be depressed. These are merely some common symptoms.

Alcohol and other drugs can put someone in a mental state that would be diagnosed as depression were it prolonged (and were they sober). I agree this was badly stated by AHunter3 - if its even what he intended to say.

7

Actually, all of the above posts are correct.

I worked with many alcoholics in the past and the percentage of those starting to drink because of depression is very high. Plus, most alcoholics are genetically addicts. It runs in families, along with depression. Many alcoholics, if they manage to give up the booze, will become addicted to illegal drugs or simple things like cigarettes or even the caffine in coffee.

Nothing gives one a buzz like alcohol – in the beginning at least. THAT is what is so insidious about it. Other drugs have side effects which are not all that pleasant – coke increases the heart rate, downers make one sleepy, pot makes one mentally fuzzy, stimulants cause one to shake or increase the heart rate and many can cause temporary mental problems.

The booze, in the beginning, gives the alcoholic a great glow and feeling of well being. They experience euphoria, loss of inhibitions (great for shy people), increased (depending upon the amount of booze consumed) sexual prowess, temporary increased appetite, increased confidence and so on.

Later, these feelings become shorter in duration and the common alcoholic drinks more to try to get them back.

Depending on the mental state, alcohol will cause depression. It can increase any existing depressive state. The more one drinks, the worse one can feel, though one has the illusion that drinking more will make one feel better.

The hangover causes massive depression, along with massive physical side effects. Large amounts of alcohol in the system cause all sorts of temporary problems which produce the much disliked internal shaking, trembling of the muscles, mental confusion, sour stomach, weakness, increased sweating, vision problems, bowel problems, and so on.

The more one drinks over time, the quicker one hits the drunken state where depression cuts in. By then, one can begin to experience ‘black outs’ where one either passes out or does things that one does not recall upon sobering up. As one continues to pour down the booze over weeks, the body begins to suffer lasting damage. (Liver, brain, stomach, kidneys, heart and bladder.) Active alcoholics are also very, very susceptive to pneumonia and other forms of transmittable diseases, like colds and flue. Their immune system is usually depressed.

The best thing for a recovering alcoholic is to get into AA or some form of addiction recovery program and not only learn how to stay off of the booze, but to go into mental therapy to get the depression treated also.

There is some controversy concerning this among alcoholics in recovery. Many old timers feel that cold turkey withdrawal is best – and also painful and many alcoholics keep drinking to avoid withdrawal. Many feel that no drugs at all should be used – DETOX now offers a period of tranquilizers and IV solutions to make the physical withdrawal MUCH, MUCH easier. Plus, since the treatment for depression uses drugs, many feel that they should be avoided, even though antidepressant drugs do not get one high – no matter how much one consumes at once.

Most depressives have a history of alcohol abuse and most alcoholics have a history of depression.

An alcoholic NEVER fully recovers and 99.99% may NEVER drink booze again. That’s why most alcoholics who have no desire to drink anymore and have been sober for like, 20 years, with consider themselves RECOVERING alcoholics.

Depressives, about 85% or higher of them, will, after therapy, be cured. The cure can take months or years.

It has been my observation that alcoholics who ‘slip’ and start drinking again (most will, even for just a little period of time, before sobering up again, for various reasons) have not taken any steps to get help for their depression. Even after being sober for months, with an alcoholic, the urge and desire to drink is great and will increase any depression they are suffering from.

Many alcoholics KNOW that they are NOT going to feel good for more than a few minutes or an hour, if they start drinking again but will drink heavily anyhow. Many even while actively drinking, try to stop by pouring out or watering down the booze – but few make it that way. Then the hangover brings about massive depression and the physical effects and many start drinking to feel better.

Many suicide during those periods also.

The study concerning depression, genetics and alcohol is still going on.

Mark
“Think of it as Evolution in action.”

8

Is there a connection? You better believe there is.

9

Hi, I’m Beeruser, and I’m an alcoholic.

Nothing makes my day like alcohol.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with me.

All in all, I feel I have a better life than the rest of you.

Soon, I’ll be leaving Las Vegas.

There’s always another beer.

10

MarkSerlin is absolutely correct.

It has been discovered that alcoholism and depression do run in family histories. A person can be genetically disposed to becoming a depressive or an alcoholic. The unique thing about over 75% of alcoholics is that they are sensitive, creative, deep feeling, often very intelligent and often initially shy people. This also paves the way for them into depression.

An alcoholic will continue to drink heavily even after that initial glow fades because it numbs his brain and he will often not feel the depression unless he drinks over a certain limit - and that limit depends on the person.

AA is about the best treatment for alcoholics – (in WW2 alcoholics from AA who served had nearly a 0% regression! I found that astonishing, considering that after being shot at all day long, with people trying to do nasty things to my anatomy in a most hurtful way, I’d certainly want to get drunk as often as possible.)

AA is not perfect, but it’s basic steps and program have been used successfully in establishing other forms of treatment programs.

The Night Watch always knows things.

11

[[AA is about the best treatment for alcoholics – (in WW2 alcoholics from AA who served had nearly a 0% regression! I found that astonishing, considering that after being shot at all day long, with people trying to do nasty things to my anatomy in a most hurtful way, I’d certainly want to get drunk as often as possible.)

AA is not perfect, but it’s basic steps and program have been used successfully in establishing other forms of treatment programs.]]

Those who can’t stomach AA (and there are plenty of reasons not to, despite the success they have with many) should check out SMART/Rational Recovery if they feel they may need a little help.

12

I am a recovering alcoholic and addict. I have attended AA for a numerous years. Does it work, for me it did. All though AA is NOT for everyone.

Regarding the OP, yes there are some drunks who do suffer from depression,manic or bi-polar. Some do seek professional help, others learn how to deal with it spiritually. Do I suffer from depression? Only if I think of the poor me’s. But what can I say, sometimes my life sucks and I have to go with the flow. The only one who can get me depressed is me. So do I choose to go there not today. Did I ever SLIP? you bet I did, not because I was not working a program or being depressed. I WANTED TO DRINK, I love booze amongest other things and at that time I was not willing to give up the booze. Eventually, I did after a few weeks of a blackout since then I havent touched a drink. That has been some time since that drink. The last drunk, I wont forget, cuz I can’t remember.

Do other programs work, well only if the person is willing to stop. But, I would say AA worked for me and has been around since 1935.

13

BigIron5

What are some of the reasons that AA is hard to stomach? Why is SMART/Rational Recovery so much better? Does it cost money to go to SMART?

From what I hear AA is free and helps millions of people get back on track.

Truth is something you stumble into when you think you’re going someplace else.
[Jerry Garcia]

14

Rational/SMART isn’t necessarily so much better, and from what I understand you really don’t need to go anywhere. Just a basic understanding of their prinicples is sufficient for many people. I read their material on the web, and I think it did help me to quit smoking (and continues to help). The most common problem people have with AA is the religious aspects.

15

But I want to know why BigIron thinks there are things about AA that some people would find hard to stomach? Did he have a bad experience?

Truth is something you stumble into when you think you’re going someplace else.
[Jerry Garcia]

16

{{“Those who can’t stomach AA (and there are plenty of reasons not to, despite the success they have with many) should check out SMART/Rational Recovery if they feel they may need a little help.”

What are some of the reasons that AA is hard to stomach?}} JohnJohn/Cyberian
That you would even ask such a question tells … well, I already know more about your mental pathology than I would like to.

AA is, at heart, a religious approach. If you don’t accept the idea of a God-based approach, it will not work well for you. Many of the chapters/groups are overtly Xian.

AA also tends to be very rigid in its approach to the issue. That is not always the best approach.

AA also can foster a rather smug and annoying culture among its adherents, although that sort of thing (and a lot of other aspects) varies a lot from group to group.
{{ Why is SMART/Rational Recovery so much better?}}
It isn’t necessarily “better.” It’s different (I know that scares you).
{{ Does it cost money to go to SMART?}}
Not a penny, just like AA.
{{From what I hear AA is free and helps millions of people get back on track.}}

It is and it does – but it is not for everybody.

17

Since I am an AA person. I needed to check out this Smart/rational program.
http://www.rational.org/recovery/ What I found out was that these people did try out AA and that AA didn’t them. Which really is ok cuz like Big Iron said and others AA is not for everyone. So another program was born.(whoopie) So here we have it a program that sells books to help others, but also bash and slander AA for its works.

I would think the reason why people can not stomach AA is 1. They will realize they are not alone and wont beable to bullshit a bullshitter, 2. That they are convinced they are to believe in a God. which they dont have to. 3. which is the most important. they are not willing t0 give up the love of their life… BOOZE. 4…
Because the only requirement for memebership is a desire to stop. < Tries to get of of the AA mood> grrrrrrrr

I do believe that AA, and the rational program , do work for people

If it works dont fix it

18

BigIron, that makes it much clearer. I’ve heard it described exactly as you pointed out. You verified what others have said. I’ve also heard it saved peoples lives. You’re right, you need to find what works for you.

19

pookie

AA was the first, [they have all copied it, I hear] and it has worked for millions. Whatever works for a person is what they should stick to.

Truth is something you stumble into when you think you’re going someplace else.
[Jerry Garcia]

20

[[What I found out was that these people did try out AA and that AA didn’t them. Which really is ok cuz like Big Iron said and others AA is not for everyone. So another program was born.(whoopie) So here we have it a program that sells books to help others, but also bash and slander AA for its works. ]] Pookie

That is a valid criticism of that group – they spend a bit too much energy criticizing AA (although this is not necessarily the case at meetings).

But you’re wrong (partly) about the God/religion thing – it is very relgious in nature.