Alcoholism

In My Humble Opinion
21

Sleep problems can be primary, or they may be a symptom of psychological or physiological problems.

Primary sleep disorders are a bear to deal with. Unfortunately, your solution is not a good one as alcohol interferes with normal sleep patterns. What you need is a good workup that looks at your history of sleeping problems, any physiological problems that may interfere with sleep, and any psychological problems that may interfere with sleep. In other words, keep trying to see a doctor. I bet you would be a good candidate (assuming it is a primary sleep disorder) for a medication that regulates sleep while allowing for a normal sleep cycle. In the US, a low continuous dose of Elavil (amitryptilene) would be the answer, but I don’t know if it is use in the UK. It is an anti-depressant that at low (not the higher doses used for depression) is effective for sleep. This is different from a sleep medication that acts by making you sleepy and is only for occasional use, like Ambien (a gift from the gods) or Sonata.

In the meantime, I second the suggestion that you try some of the behavioral techniques. The most frequent ones I have heard (I am a former insomniac myself) are to limit caffeiene, go to bed and get up at the same time every day, and use the bed for sleeping only. That last one makes me laugh, because when you read it, they mention not working in bed, but sex is ignored. On the other hand, the couch can be nice. :slight_smile:

One thing I noticed is that you do shift work. Does your shift change? Do you tend to change your hours on your days off? For some of us with sleep problems, that sort of stuff is just impossible.

22

Lobsang, I could have written your post a few years ago.

I did try many, many prescription sleep aids, and all with varying levels of non-success. For me, because alcohol was a “sure thing” in the way that it helped me sleep, I relied on it. I worried all the time, though, about the ill effects and what it all meant.

I did try melatonin, and had great success. I know of course that YMMV, but this worked for me to the point where I now drink every once in a while at holidays and such, not to the point where I am drunk, and I sleep with no sleep aids whatsoever (again, YMMV, and I relaize that a ‘true’ alcoholic cannot go back towards social drinking, generally speaking). I just had to get past the insomnia, and the FEAR of the insomnia, and it pretty much fell into place. Now when I have a sleepless night, it’s just a sleepless night, and not something I have to cure by self-medicating.

I wish you good luck with this, and give you a lot of credit for trying to do something before other parts of your life suffer.

23

I think there are two key points to be addressed, here. The first is to look into your sleep problem. Talk to a doctor; there are countless approaches to improving sleep quality. That’s the first, as this may well be a classic case of “self-medication”.

Secondly, you want to know if you’re an alcoholic. It seems to me that the way to determine this is to attempt to stop drinking. If you can quit without too much trouble, that’s fantastic. If, however, you seem to be having great difficulty – even with the sleep problem addressed – you should look into dealing with these cravings. Again, I would talk to a doctor first, if this is the case; they may be able to refer you for appropriate treatment.

24

I was a moderate drinker who turned into a problem drinker who turned into a full-blown alcoholic. While I don’t doubt that there are moderate and heavy, even problem, drinkers who can successfully either stop or moderate their drinking, in my case, it was a clear progression.

Sometimes I think, “Hey, I used to be able to drink moderately and not get into trouble. Good times! What was different in my life that enabled me to drink normally? How can I get that back?” When I have those thoughts, I have to stop, and force myself to remember the blackouts, the hellish mornings, the shaking, the vomiting, and generally making an ass of myself. You can’t turn a pickle back into a cucumber, as they say. It is the classic obsession of many an alcoholic that he or she might one day be able to drink normally again. However, my alcoholism has progressed to the point that I can never, ever return to drinking “normally” like I once considered it to be. (Whether I ever actually drank normally is another matter - for example, after the second sip of my first drink ever, I knew I had to have another.)

The first shaky days of sobriety can be incredibly frightening. “What am I going to do with my time? How will I fall asleep?” It can seem impossible. I occupied my evenings with AA meetings, having coffee with sober friends, and little chores around the house. More often than not, though, it was imperative that I get out of the house, for here is where I did 95% of my drinking. I was lucky in that I had an ongoing prescription for a tranquilizer (clonazepam), so that helped with the shakes and anxiety. (I no longer take it.)

As for sleep, Elavil was mentioned. Another AD that works well as a sleep aid is trazodone (Desyrel). Other ADs are also shown to improve sleep quality. IANAD, but perhaps a hypnotic would be useful in the short term, before switching to something less habit-forming.

AA may or may not be for you. If you do decide to try it, be sure to go to several meetings before making a decision.

25

it doesn’t seem that you really are already into a risk-zone, Lobsang, but I’m with techchick and lorinda that you should try to attack the sleeping problem without alcohol, at least during the week. Have you read the How do you get to sleep? thread?

Good luck in any case!

26

I found that going to bed with a buzz always led to a terrible night’s sleep. It seemed I never got to that “deep” level of sleep which is actually restorative. I agree that you need to address the insomnia first, through relaxation techniques or a prescription if necessary. Once you get your body back into its natural rhythm, you will be fine.

Easier said than done, but don’t obsess about this – it only leads to more anxiety. You will find what works best for you, trust that.

27

How old are you Lobsang? Remember that alcoholism is a progressive condition. I happened to be one of the unfortunate ones who glided through the stages rather quickly. I’m twenty-six and already in late stage alcoholism. My case worker, point blank, told me if I don’t stop, there’s a very good likelyhood I’ll be dead within a few years. Bummer. I take a small dose of Elavil, HS. Doesn’t seem to help too much. I also got a hold of Ambien and Sonata via various psychiatrists; however, they act on the GABA receptors, as do alcohol and benzodiazepines like Valium, Ativan and Xanax. They’re more selective, but that doesn’t stop me from going through my entire supply in a matter of days. Your best bet is to do a little reading on the subject. Maybe attend an AA meeting and see what you think. Good luck.

28

A few general observations; take what you can use and leave the rest.

  1. People who use alcohol to get to sleep are far more likely to have alcoholism than a primary sleep disorder.

  2. People who use alcohol to treat their depressive symptoms are far more likely to have either alcohol-induced depression (strongly associated with alcoholism) or alcoholism along with endogenous depression than they are to have depression alone.

  3. Outside of Familial Fatal Insomnia (which is quite rare and incurable), people don’t die from lack of sleep itself. Using alcohol or pharmaceuticals on a regular basis to get to sleep is generally not a good thing.

  4. Once consumption of alcohol starts impairing things at one’s place of employment, the individual is generally already in the late stages of alcoholism.

QtM, MD

29

I am sat here trying to think of what to type, but the truth is I am lost for words. I am truly amongst friends here on the boards!

It is also releiving to find that I might be merely a ‘problem drinker’ rather than an alcoholic. I can stop drinking alltogether if my situation requires it - such as when I spend a week at my father’s house, drinking only one glass of wine a day with dinner, and turning down the one or two beers he offers me at night, or when my brother and his wife/kids come here to stay, It doesn’t seem appropriate to drink while they are here.

And then the situation returns to normal, and I can sustain the non-drinking for days, until my weak will gives in and I start again.
A coleague of mine used to be an alcoholic. He’s in his 50s (I think) and is now a moderate drinker, and seems perfectly at ease with it. Another coleague - I suspect has the same type of problem as me but worse. He often rings us up during our night shift and sounds drunk. And has been known to say a few beers will make him feel better, when he is feeling ill. He also complains of being ill almost every shift I did with him (when I worked days) Perhaps I am not in the best sphere of influence!.

I don’t think I’ll attend any AA meetings just yet. I think doing so would be a huge blow to my self esteem.

I sort of know what I need to do with myself - When I think hard about giving up - the evil little bastard voice in the back of my head says ‘your life will be boring without it’. ANd If I keep thinking the even deeper, kinder voice reminds me - drinking isn’t actually fun. It doesn’t enhance my enjoyment of music or anything, like I have been tricked into believing by the drink.

So I need a hobby, something to fill my time, something to tire me out. I need to buy a mountain bike (I had one until a couple of months ago, when it got stolen) I live in a frickin ideal place for mountain biking for god’s sake! And/or I need a car, so I can pop out to all the amazing places here in the Isle of Man instead of being stuck in dreary douglas.

I need to get a life so that I can feel good about myself, increase my self esteem. I know if I feel good about myself it will be easy to not drink.
I really appreciate all the encouraging replies. And I hope the others with a problem, are managing it and I am here for you like you are here for me!

Lobsang

30

Lobsang

I spent my drive into work today thinking about posting the same thing that you did. I don’t even know what to say. I, too, can not go to sleep without a few drinks. I’ve always told myself, “Alcoholics are people who can’t go to work, or they take time off because of thier drinking.” But I’ve always wondered what I am, because I drink every damn day. I’ve stopped without shakes or mood problems, but I always go back because I enjoy it. I like the taste; it mellows me out after a stressfull day (which most of my days are). I, too, am rarely hungover, or absolutely trashed. Thanks to everyone who has responded to Lobsang. I feel like you’re talking to me as well.

I would also like to congratulate you for having the courage to say what you did. I wasn’t going to post my issues, but now I am because you were strong enough to say it first. Thank you
-tool

31

If you are looking for a hobby, I suggest picking up a guitar or a ukulele. Seriously. You are never too old to learn and players are always eager (sometimes overly eager) to help out.

It is difficult at first, but once things “click” for you it becomes a great way to relieve stress and something you look forward to doing.

And the chicks love it.:wink:

32

Thankyou lightnintool. As has just been demonstrated - the other members of this message board are kind supportive people. If you post your worries or problems here I am pretty sure this kind of support will be given in all cases.

There is a huge diversity of people here, and it is likely there is someone with the experience to help, or talk with, about any problem.

33

I don’t like guitars as such, but it’s a good idea Murcielago perhaps I will get a music keyboard.

I used to have a little music keyboard. and knew a few basic tunes. But I outgrew it (literally! - it became too small for my fingers)

34

I feel that’s there 's been a few points missed out here:

  1. Some people never, ever get used to working nights. My neighbour worked nights for twenty years and could never get used to sleeping during the day.
  2. Nobody dies from insomia, right? True, but it drives many people to suicide, which amounts to the same thing.
35

Lobsang, you remind me of a friend of mine; she works three jobs and lives alone (her b/f is an army medic in Cali) and she uses alcohol as a way to “socialize” after work. (She bartends at my bar.) But where I can have one or two drinks with her, and be perfectly happy stopping there, she has to have at least five or six, and if I mention it, she’ll say, “Oh, I can’t get to sleep unless I have a few more.”

And since I don’t get to see her very often unless we hang out after work, I feel bad telling her I’m just not in the mood for a drink, b/c that means I can’t hang out with her. And I’ve tried going with her and drinking a soda, but she’ll order me a drink anyway. I know she’s lonely and unhappy and she works a lot of hours, and feels like this is her “reward,” but I’m not a huge drinker and I don’t like having friends you have to drink with. And it’s difficult to tell a pal, especially one I only see once/twice a week, that she has a problem and I don’t feel right encouraging her by hanging out with her. B/c she’ll drink alone if she has to, and I’ll just end up never seeing her.

So I’m very glad you’ve figured out you may have a problem, and while I don’t have any advice for you, I wish you all the luck in the world. The important thing is that you were mature enough to realize that what you’re doing may indicate that you have a problem. That’s half the battle. You have more friends than you know, and we are all pulling for you.

[sub]And if anyone’s had experience with a friend like mine, please let me know what I should do–if I should say anything to her, and how–b/c I really do feel like she’s got a problem, but I don’t know what to do about it and I don’t want to lose a friend.[/sub]

36

My .02 :

** Lobsang **, you sound familiar. My perfect ritual is to go home, work out, have dinner and start drinking around 7 or 8. That way by around 11 or so I’m kind of sleepy. Off to bed, right to sleep, 8 hours later, bright eyed and bushy tailed.

It’s just. . . boring to sit there and watch tv without SOMETHING in your hand. (keep your jokes to yourself)

Now the weekend binges are a bit different. . .

Oh yeah, I went to AA for awhile and quit drinking for over 2 years but I thought it was incredibly boring to be sober all the time so I started drinking again.

I’m 27.

37

Lobsang, lightingtool, and anyone else reading and thinking “Hey, this is relevant” - coming from a family with many, many generations of alcoholics (and becoming the first generation in a very long time to not have developed a problem by age 18), I echo what others are saying, and I’m very glad to hear that you all are seeking help in one form or another. I grew up hanging around AA meetings, and the groups I met were made up of some of the best, most friendly, and most supportive people I have ever met in my life. If you think you’d like to attend a meeting, go - please, please realize that it’s not a negative blow to your self-esteem. If anything, feel proud of yourselves for taking the big step and just going to see what it’s like, even if you only go once and decide it’s not for you. Good luck!

38

Lobbie, this makes me think RR may be the way for you to go, if you decide you have a problem.

I’m not saying AA doesn’t work. It just doesn’t work for everyone, and RR can work better if your mindset is such that AA doesn’t sit well with you.

39

Lobsang and everyone else who’s reading this and wondering if they have a problem, do something about it now. You never know what tomorrow has in store for you. When I met my husband he was working his way down to Mexico where he was going to drink himself to death. He’s 28 and has probably been an alcoholic since he was 18. He never planned on meeting me or starting a family or to even have any reason to live at all. Now he can’t stop drinking. He can work and he functions, but he’s run down and doesn’t want to participate in our lives. On the other hand, he doesn’t want to be left out either. Every day it gets harder for him to be interested in life, to do anything. Everything make him angry. He has no tolerance at all, especially when he’s drunk. It’s made such an impression on me that I’ve all but stopped drinking myself and I used to go out and get drunk at least once a week.

Not that he started out like this. He just wanted to have a good time with everyone else. Then after a while he started to feel that having a couple of drinks after work was his hard earned right. He’s pretty shy and alcohol helped his loosen up enough to socialize. It’s a slippery slope. One day you wake up and your harmless partying has become a crutch that’s stealing your life. You didn’t see it happen until it’s too late.

I don’t mean to nag, if that’s what this sounds like to you. As a wife who loves her alcoholic husband and it’s killing her to watch him dying before her eyes, please take your lives back now. Don’t be ashamed to get help, that’s why it’s there.

40

What a touching thread.

I mean, I have nothing of value to add. Don’t know much about alcoholism, myself. As a matter of fact, I’m sitting here drinking a Westmalle Double. First of the day, though.

But we’ve got some genuinely caring people here on board. Yeah, Lobsang, I’d say you’re among friends here.

I also see a few other guys pretty much saying they’re severe alcoholics, some at frighteningly young ages. Watch out, and take care of yourselves, guys.