I have a number of friends on social media in the entertainment industry, most of whom are behind the scenes, and without exception they and their colleagues think that the armorer fucked up with the slight possibility of the gun malfunctioning somehow.
Not true, one of the prop guns I own is a revolver and it has a small hole that is recessed in the barrel. This gives the effect when it is fired of a small amount of smoke billowing out the end of the barrel.
Makes sense from a practical effects view. I thought the reason for the choking of a semi-auto was that otherwise the blank wouldn’t cause enough gas pressure to cycle the action. Which of course isn’t the case with a revolver.
If they need to use something that looks real then, IMO, it should be modified so that:
- It won’t receive standard ammunition
- It’s not capable of discharging any type of projectile
If they need something that makes a little noise so people can react to it that’s easy to deal with. It doesn’t have to be .357 Magnum loud. They can add the sound in later.
Or instead of guns, they can use walkie-talkies.
Hm, is it possible to create a prop gun with realistic recoil that doesn’t fire anything? I can imagine it’d be expensive, but doable. Maybe insurance companies can force studios’ hand and make them come up with something like that.
But that’s how mine are. With only 1 exception they fire 8mm and 9mm PAK ammo and can’t be chambered with live ammo. But there still needs to be at least a small hole or vent to release gas and for a semi-auto to cycle.
This seems likely. I’m picturing it as Halyna Hutchins either operating the camera herself or standing next to the camera operator, and then director Joel Souza seated behind her.
This is as good a place as any to dive into this. I’m a member of IATSE Local 600- the Cinematographer Guild. We’ve all lost a Sister in this accident.
Lots of opinions posed as facts. Here are a set of facts that aren’t being discussed anywhere in the media. This, from a member of the Camera Department of “Rust”.
Best to address some of the “factual” comments made in the post I’m quoting as well as address other remarks. But before I do, here’s a bit of fact that occurred the night before the shooting that has gone utterly unreported in the media: 4 members of the Camera Department quit this show that night. That’d be Wednesday night. Here is the quote of this member’s text to a colleague. It is a truncated screenshot and begins mid-sentence:
Before people rain down on me over the fact that this could be pure fiction, let me say that I’m also a Steadicam Operator. Reid is in fact the B camera/ Steadicam Op on “Rust”. He talked about this gig before going out on it in New Mexico. This ONE bit informs me that this is a geniune screenshot.
New Mexico has exploded recently as the new Production mecca. Zero Unions ( more about that below ), lower costs of gear and so on. Netflix purchaed an entire film studio complex before COVID-19 shut everything down.
I’d read things online in various Camera- and Production-forums regarding the lack of proper ( Union ) discipline in all crafts on sets in New Mexico, as well as all other “right to work” states. Abusive hours, poor housing, unsafe transportation and the more obvious red flags: stunts and firearms. It’s very cheap to hire someone who has a Pelican case filled with guns who says they are an Armorer. It’s another thing entirely to be on set with a genine Armorer who runs a very tight and controlled situation regarding firearms. ( Stunts and explosions are the purvey of others on a set ).
I’ve been shot at on sets at relatively close range. ( And I detest guns ). With utmost care and regard for my safety, we got the shot. 1/4-load blanks were used and the extras playing NYPD cops were drilled as to proper protocols. All went well. When things are managed strictly, nobody needs to get hurt. AND since it’s 2021, nobody ever needs to get hurt because all actions related to the firing of a gun large or small can be added by using CGI in post-production. Muzzle flash, weapon kick, slide action on an automatic handgun. All easily added in post. Unless you’re doing a lowball cheap show. Because those pixels cost money and bullets and real guns are quite cheap. No surprise that the entire budget is being listed publicly at (roughly ) 2 million, with $ 700,000 of that as salary to Mr. Baldwin.
You work cheap, you cut corners. You use guns that can fire bullets. You don’t take care with safety. And people are injured or killed. I’m sickened by this. EVERY death on a film set is unneccesary and frankly, unless you are a trained Stunt person, every injury is similarly unneccesary.
Considering the quote I posted about by a (former) crew member, I would not be surprised to learn that Ms. Hutchins had stepped up to operate her own camera since the Operator had resigned the night before. Now, had this labor incident not occurred the Operator would have been in the line of fire and the D.P. ( Ms. Hutchins ) may well have been off to the side, clear of the line of fire. It will come out if she in fact was Operating on the day. The last IATSE 600 contracts allow for the D.P. to Operate themselves instead of insisting on a separate Operator.
Points of fact. I’m in no way saying it would have been worse or better for another technician to be shot to death.
Personal aside: Hey, Bill_Doors, nice to see you here even if on a sober topic !! Congrats on moving onto work on sets. Best to Robin !! 
Blank-firing guns have negligible recoil compared to live rounds fired from a gun.
I still think he framed the bassoonist.
First of all, it’s D.O.P. ( Director of Photography ), and she’s dead. At least get that RIGHT.
To answer you briefly , Directors either hide out at Video Village or stand quite near the camera to direct and line up shots. It is beyond the norm and accepted practice for the D.O.P. and Director to both be near the camera while lining up a shot and, for that matter, when doing a take of that shot.
It’s the way it’s done a lot of the time. Both in rehearsal and take mode. Sorry if that doesn’t fit your narrative. Last year I got my 30-year Pin in IATSE Local 600 as an Operator. Trust me, please, when I tell you I know of whence I speak.
By comparison, it would be useful for you to share with the people reading this thread the depth of your experience in filmmaking.
What’s the difference between director of photography and director of cinematography?
I thought of that episode too. In fact I just saw that episode again a couple of weeks ago. But your description is not accurate. That was merely one of the theories about the murder, but what actually happened was
the killer tainted an apple that the actor ate onstage with something he was allergic to, causing him to collapse. Then the killer’s accomplice, pretending to be a doctor in the audience, ran up on stage and secretly stabbed him while pretending to take his pulse.
Thanks, Cartooniverse and others bringing specialized knowledge to the thread.
I remember an episode of an HBO drama in which two actors were performing Macbeth and the prop knife was switched for a real one.
IATSE 720 member here; thanks to Cartooniverse for weighing in with such great info and perspective.
And yeah: RIP Sister Helyna.
Question: Can an actor under film lights even SEE the people behind the camera?
I can imagine a scenario where Baldwin was essentially shooting into the camera woth the camera being the POV of the person being shot in the film. He’s told not to shoot right at the camera to avoid damage to the lens from powder particles, so he aims slightly off, fires, and hits people standing behind and slightly off to the side of the camera.
I suspect cameras probably have some sort of lexan or other clear shield in front of them for this sort of thing which may have given everyone a sense of unwarranted safety.
As for the possibility of a live round being in the gun, it being a revolver could explain it. Revolvers need to use dummy bullets and not normal blanks, because you can see the tips of the bullets in the cylinder when it’s aimed at the camera. So I am guessing that fake rounds look a lot more like real ones in this situation. If someone accidentally loaded a real round, it might be hard to know.
Maybe someone volunteered their own western collectible revolver for the shoot, and no one cleared it properly before rehearsal, and everyone assumed the bullets they coild see were dummies.
A massive screw-up in any case. But absent more information, I don’t see how Baldwin is at fault.