This clip has an announcer reporting the count. Assuming this count is synched with the actual count, it looks like Foreman was up by 8. (Foreman goes down at around 2:40)
Thoughts?
Dude…that was 38 years ago…what took you so long?
From the clip, it looks like Foreman does go down just before the clock hit 0:10. When the clock counts to 0:00, he’s still on one knee, so I think he was down for a 10 count.
Also, might the referee have called the fight regardless of whether or not Foreman was up before the count? It’s pretty obvious that he was done, whether he was on his feet or not.
I’ve always wondered about this, and was prompted by my recent read of an excellent book, “Facing Ali” by Stephen Brunt, who interviewed and profiled fifteen men who’d fought Ali. Foreman’s story reinforces what an exemplary human being he’s become after an early life that was quite different.
Back to the OP: your suggestion to follow the onscreen clock rather than the announcer is a good one, and by that clock, I agree that Foreman did stay down 10 seconds. I wonder though if the referee’s count, which Foreman was trying to make, is close to the clock. If so, the announcer’s count was off.
I’m not sure though that Foreman was definitely “done”. The round had ended, giving him a minute to recover. Irrelevant though, if the count was fair.
If Foreman had made it into the 9th round he would have been massacred.
He was out of gas long before he went down, and Ali hadn’t lost a step.
Joe Frazier was ringside and express fear that Foreman might get badly hurt.
I hadn’t heard about Frazier’s comment. Interesting.
The count was on the fast side for boxing. Count’s aren’t often dead on, and the referee can be delayed in starting the count for a variety of legitimate reasons, and some that aren’t. But Foreman was in bad shape and the referee likely would have stopped the fight anyway. It was controversial in a championship fight at the end of a round, in that era many still believed in the idea of giving the champion benefit of the doubt, and having the referee make a judgement call based on that. But many also believed in the idea that Ali was the real champ all along, and that may have influenced the referee’s decision. But I don’t think Foreman had a chance in the rest of the fight. He was approaching exhaustion and had never trained properly for a long fight in the first part of his career. Ali was, as always, prepared to go the distance, and a tired Foreman was a sitting duck for him.
Well you have to beat a “ten count” not “ten seconds”. It’s just as much about giving the ref a period of time to look you over to see if you should continue as an arbitrary rule. I’ve seen plenty of people beat the count and the referee just basically says “that’s enough for you tonight”.
Foreman had a lot of excuses for that fight. I understand recently he has become less bitter about it. He has claimed:
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Ali’s men loosened the ropes before the fight allowing him to lean WAY back to avoid Foreman’s punches.
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Foreman felt fine getting up, but he saw his best friend in the front row cheering for Ali. This shocked him, and when the referee asked him to look at him he didn’t comply. This caused the ref to call the fight off.
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Foreman’s trainer denied him any water for 24 hours before the fight, giving him 1 glass minutes before, supposedly to rejuvenate him all at once to give him great energy.
3b. Foreman sometimes claims the water “tasted like medicine” and the trainer got furious and yelled “it’s the same damn water it’s always been!” and this poisoned George.
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He was trained to always stay down when knocked down and make eye contact with your trainer first. Then only begin to rise when he tells you. His trainer didn’t tell him to get up till 8 or 9 and the next thing he knew it was over.
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The cut suffered in sparring interrupted his training camp causing him to peak at the wrong time, then not have as much energy left for the fight.
At the end of the day he was young and had a poor game plan. He underestimated Ali, but to his credit most of the world thought Ali would lose. Foreman would have won a rematch if he paced himself better I believe. Especially if they had it somewhere reasonable like Madison Square Garden and it wasn’t 100 degrees outside.
A fun fact about that fight is one of the reason the crowd in Africa hated Foreman so much. As soon as Foreman got off the plane, he had these two great big German Shepards with him. They were his pets and he traveled with them a lot. Well the government in Africa used German Shepards for riot control and the people HATED those dogs. That created a lot of bad attitudes concerning Foreman for the people of Zaire.
I would also recommend “Facing Tyson” which is a really good book as well. Also the movie “Facing Ali” is a good watch.